Jeff Ream Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 so...what if the OC corps voted to all be one class again...would the BOD look at that option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurpleKnights Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Too late for that you are the one that started making this about Cascades with your slams of them.... So far in reading comments I have counted 3 different numbers and as the thread grows the members of Cascades keep shrinking. Some on stated that the average member age was 13, IT IS NOT. Guard is smaller yes too small yes, but they also lost 5 kids between the start of all days and there first show due to sickness and injury. Yes the corps is smaller this year and there are a number of vets that did not return. Everyone of them I have spoken with it was mainly because of not being able to march corps and pay for college with the way the economy has been. Less than a hand full moved to a different corps. There have been many changes to Cascades in the last year for a number of reasons. And as a 3rd year parent it is the first year I have seen the support and strength grow from within the corps. This now shows all the way through the corps from the board, staff, members all the way down to the parents. Someone asked for a parents point of view on the lower tier corps I will quote what my daughter said to me after her first year " It is not about the destination, it is about the quality of the journey to the destination!" that is one of the few things she has learned marching Cascades. The educational value she has received from being part of Cascades goes way beyond this. She had opportunity this year to change which corps she was going to tour with (yes it was one of the higher tier corps) and guess what she made the choice to stay with Cascades. Until you spend time with this corps and get a feel for the dedication that runs deep through them DO NOT PASS JUDGEMENT on something you do not know about! Yes they have had bumps in there rebuilding and there may even be a few more along the way but trust me they will pull themselves up. You may not like this years show (I hated last years show) get over it or don't watch it, but don't spread rumors that they are in trouble. So there is the opinion of a flipping ###### off parent of a lower tier corps! P.S. OC has made the choice to stay open till they feel ready, and Thunder almost folded not to long ago and it is great to see them still in open class and I hope they can stay and grow. I'm sure you're a proud parent, I'm sure they work very hard, and I'm sure they're very dedicated, but they posted the lowest score of the season in World Class on July 2, and whatever the exact number of members it's certainly under 80. No rumors. I know you're emotionally involved with the organization but drum corps isn't exactly something we can't pass judgment on (we do hire judges), and the Cascades aren't putting on a World Class product. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeWhoWaits Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) You have to understand that they have a very hard show that is not being executed this early in the season. Once they clean it up they will blow some minds. People are quick to point out the open class corps that beat them last year, the only problem with that senerio is that they are scored on differnt books. If the Cascades and the Oregon Crusaders, Spokane Thunder wher scored on the same books, the Cascades would have beaten them by many points. They are only 17 point away from the top 12. Not a problem. Last year at Championships, a reasonable estimate of OC scores on Thursday was 80% of their scores from OC Finals on Tuesday. Using the same calculation, last night's show in Boise would have produced the following scores on the same sheet (rounded): Oregon Crusaders - 59.10 (from 73.90) Thunder - 53.75 (from 67.20) Cascades - 51.10 (actual score) While not quite the "ten pointing them" of an earlier post, Oregon Crusaders would surely be dominating Cascades if they were scored on the same sheets. Simple conclusion - Cascades are not currently up to the standard of the other Pacific Northwest corps this season. This is a clear example of performance level having ZERO impact on classificaiton. Edited July 3, 2012 by HeWhoWaits 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark1 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) It appears that westorm is trying to get people to bag on the Cascades by presenting scenarios on expectations for them, and then sitting back and letting everyone else say how unrealistic those scenarios are. Dont feed the troll. Edited July 3, 2012 by Roark1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 so...what if the OC corps voted to all be one class again...would the BOD look at that option? Or, better yet, ALL the corps directors vote to eliminate all classes entirely? All corps, one division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Or, better yet, ALL the corps directors vote to eliminate all classes entirely? All corps, one division. It'd be interesting. of course, one issue is the cost to show hosts...now they'd have to pay everyone. There would no longer be a seperate OC tour the last two weeks of the season either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argonaut Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) Too late for that you are the one that started making this about Cascades with your slams of them.... So far in reading comments I have counted 3 different numbers and as the thread grows the members of Cascades keep shrinking. Some on stated that the average member age was 13, IT IS NOT. Guard is smaller yes too small yes, but they also lost 5 kids between the start of all days and there first show due to sickness and injury. Yes the corps is smaller this year and there are a number of vets that did not return. Everyone of them I have spoken with it was mainly because of not being able to march corps and pay for college with the way the economy has been. Less than a hand full moved to a different corps. There have been many changes to Cascades in the last year for a number of reasons. And as a 3rd year parent it is the first year I have seen the support and strength grow from within the corps. This now shows all the way through the corps from the board, staff, members all the way down to the parents. Someone asked for a parents point of view on the lower tier corps I will quote what my daughter said to me after her first year " It is not about the destination, it is about the quality of the journey to the destination!" that is one of the few things she has learned marching Cascades. The educational value she has received from being part of Cascades goes way beyond this. She had opportunity this year to change which corps she was going to tour with (yes it was one of the higher tier corps) and guess what she made the choice to stay with Cascades. Until you spend time with this corps and get a feel for the dedication that runs deep through them DO NOT PASS JUDGEMENT on something you do not know about! Yes they have had bumps in there rebuilding and there may even be a few more along the way but trust me they will pull themselves up. You may not like this years show (I hated last years show) get over it or don't watch it, but don't spread rumors that they are in trouble. So there is the opinion of a flipping ###### off parent of a lower tier corps! P.S. OC has made the choice to stay open till they feel ready, and Thunder almost folded not to long ago and it is great to see them still in open class and I hope they can stay and grow. I’m sorry if you feel that I have slammed your corps. I don’t think that I have. There are a few posts in this thread that are not respectful to the Cascades, but that is the nature of DCP. I have tried to steer the thread back to its original discussion, but once you open up a can of worms, it take a while for them to be digested. I did use the Cascades as an example in my first post, simply because I was at a show they performed and it prompted this very discussion amongst a group of people sitting next to me at the show. These were folks that had never been to a drum corps show before. The Cascades are not performing at a world class level. They are a small corps and do not have the capability to be competitive at the world class level. I don’t know exactly how many members they have, but the small number of members, especially the color guard, they cannot be competitive in the general effect caption with any world class corps. This is not a slam, it is the reality of the situation. They are currently in last place by overall scores and last place in almost every caption. They are currently five points behind their closest competitor. If they were competing in the open class, they would most likely be in 6th or 7th place. The Cascades are world class in name only. This doesn’t mean that they are less of a drum corps, it just means that they are not competing at the level of their current state. The members can still have a world class drum corps experience and I hope that they will, but I don’t think clinging to the world class status will enhance the experience, rather distract for it. I believe that the members would have a much better experience competing in a class that they can be competitive in. I know from my 38 years in drum corps that how you rank is very important to marching members. I marched in a corps that dreamed of being in the top 12. We worked hard at that goal every year. We never made that goal and after about three years of not making the goal, most of us left and went to other corps that was already in the top 12. I had a great drum corps experience, but not obtaining our goal was disappointing every year. When I look back at the situation, I realize that we really never had a chance to make the top 12, due the size of our corps. We were a very good corps with lots of talent, but we were small and there was no way we could compete with the corps in the top 12 that had twice as many horns and twice as many flags. We dominated our region and took home many first place titles, but only made it to associate drum corps. I wish we would have had the class structure they have now, because we would have had much more realistic goals. I understand that there are many reasons for the small size of the Cascades this year. They are the same reasons every corps loses members. The bottom line is that the corps is small, for whatever reason. I don’t think they will benefit by their world class title, if they can’t compete in the world class arena. They would be much better off to compete in open class and work their way back to world class status. I want the Cascades to succeed, but I don’t think that competing at the world class level is the right path at this point in time. I have now been sucked into making this thread about the Cascades. Ok, what would be a the biggest reason for a corps to move from World Class to Open Class? Discuss. Edited July 3, 2012 by argonaut 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tone Quality Matters Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) World Class (formerly Division I) corps are the corps that have chosen to compete at the highest level and that have shown the DCI leadership that they have the ability to survive at this level both competitively and financially. The leadership of the "Top Twelve" World Class corps are given voting rights on the DCI Board of Directors. The higher a corps is ranked at the DCI Championships, the higher the performance fees they will earn for the following season's performances. Open Class (formerly Divisions II & III) corps are generally smaller or committed to a lesser competitive level. In September of 2007, DCI combined the former Divisions II and III into this new division.[3][4] Edited July 3, 2012 by Tone Quality Matters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tone Quality Matters Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 World Class (formerly Division I) corps are the corps that have chosen to compete at the highest level and that have shown the DCI leadership that they have the ability to survive at this level both competitively and financially. The leadership of the "Top Twelve" World Class corps are given voting rights on the DCI Board of Directors. The higher a corps is ranked at the DCI Championships, the higher the performance fees they will earn for the following season's performances. Open Class (formerly Divisions II & III) corps are generally smaller or committed to a lesser competitive level. In September of 2007, DCI combined the former Divisions II and III into this new division.[3][4] If this is the standard that DCI set, then it seems clear to me that if the Cascades are at the level that the OP said they are at competitively, then why hasn't DCI stepped in by now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argonaut Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 It'd be interesting. of course, one issue is the cost to show hosts...now they'd have to pay everyone. There would no longer be a seperate OC tour the last two weeks of the season either. I think the two tier system works if it is managed, but their has to be a mechanism to put corps in their correct level. When we have corps competing in world class that are not at a world class level, the two tier system is meaningless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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