argonaut Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Nope, that was before I knew what DCI was. I know ot was a big deal when they made finals, but it was 10 years ago now Ok, that is a really great point. Now back to the discussion not about the Cascades ride to the top of DCI this year, but what does it take for DCI to move a World Class corps back down to Open class. continue forward 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Don't be a Schater. This is a different year. The scores in Oregon and Washington where not that far off, if it was on the same scale as the semi's last year, the Cascades would have killed the Crusaders without question. No one is being a hater, but you have to be logical and realistic. crusaders have probably 50 more members, and are performing at a pretty good level. Even taking the standard ''15 point'' drop between score classes, crusaders would still have beaten cascades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Ok, that is a really great point. Now back to the discussion not about the Cascades ride to the top of DCI this year, but what does it take for DCI to move a World Class corps back down to Open class. continue forward I think the WGI method would work, where class changes are fluid based on the year. Would allow for some change, and keep things more honest between competitive corps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I think the WGI method would work, where class changes are fluid based on the year. Would allow for some change, and keep things more honest between competitive corps A few things, however: 1) in WGI they do not move unit DOWN a class. If an instructor wants to keep their group in World, even if they are getting 20 pointed by the next unit up, that's their business. 2) in WGI, promotion during a season is based solely on design w/a bit of performance: it has NOTHING to do with financial stability. This is quite different from DCI's model, for great reason. In WGI units mostly compete in their region, with a lot of groups only traveling for Finals (and many not even having to "travel" for Finals: for example, a Kentucky guard, or Central Ohio percussion unit might never have to drive more than 90 minutes to any regional or Finals). In DCI WC corps have to travel far more than OC, so DCI needs to ensure that WC corps are financially stable enough to keep their members well cared for on tour. Since that's not a concern of WGI, WGI only needs to focus on ensuring groups are competing at the level they are designing for (or higher, I suppose). While WGI & DCI are kind of similar, they are extremely different: it really is apples to watermelons. Believe me, I personally would LOVE nothing more than to see, say, Blue Devils B compete in World Class where they belong from a design & execution standpoint (and possibly from a financial standpoint as well, but I don't really know that). But DCI runs their organization based on a financial model, and unless a corps wants to drop down to Open Class (and give up the "prestige" of being a WC corps + the WC pay checks & tour opportunities) I doubt things will change. Unless the 'Super Corps' or 'G8' or whatever happens and DCI completely restructures itself... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argonaut Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 Perhaps DCI could use some of the ideas from WGI, but they are a much different activity. They have smaller units. They don't have to take their groups on the road like drum corps. They go on short trips with one big trip to Dayton. They don't have equipment trucks, cook trucks like drum corps and don't have as much expense. Even with the system that WGI has, I still see groups that can not survive due to the cost, but I have not see as wide of a performance difference within the top classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I don't want to bring them up again, but the Cascades took a year off to get there finacial house in order, the Troopers took a year off to regroup their financial situation, why did they not lose their World Class status? No - the Troopers were sidelined by a unanimous vote of the other DCI member corps. By that vote, they were ordered to take a year off and get their house in order. Had they failed to do so to the full satisfaction of the DCI participation review committee, they would not have returned to world-class the following year. We also seem to forget that when a corps misses more than one season, they must return via open-class (i.e. Magic 2002, Capital Regiment 2009). Those are two methods by which a corps can lose world-class status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Don't be a Schater. This is a different year. The scores in Oregon and Washington where not that far off, if it was on the same scale as the semi's last year, the Cascades would have killed the Crusaders without question. Haha! You're trolling! Glad to see someone having fun, I guess.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynsew Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Unfortunate though it may be, I don't think you can separate the financial health of a corps from this debate. There are too many instances in the not-too-distant past about corps living on PB & J for the end of tour, or of one corps stepping up to the plate and feeding another because the latter was out of money. There are certainly corps like Blue Devils B and SCVC, and others, who could certainly compete and are probably financially healthy enough to move to WC, but their choice is to remain in OC. Whatever their reasons, that decision does not appear to have hurt their corps. For some, the decision to remain in OC may just be that they have learned how to "live within their means". The corps that make up the bottom tier of WC are providing the experience of a full tour and everything that goes along with it. Several years ago at the Friends of DCI breakfast during championship week, we had the privilege of having a young man from Pioneer join us at our table. From our conversation with him, he will never forget that summer and it didn't make one iota of difference where they placed. Spend a few minutes some time with the kids in these corps, I would love to hear from some of the parents of kids that were in some of these corps and share some of the experiences your kids had. I am one of those parents that had the chance to watch all 3 of my boys march Pioneer in 2009. I also had 2 of them march in 2010. They were a part of that Friends of DCI breakfast performance. First off, all of the "friends" were wonderful, I was told. They were very appreciative of their performance. It didn't matter that they weren't BD or Crown, or Cavies. My boys felt like those attending really cared and enjoyed the program. As for their experience, my twins started out young (15) and thoroughly loved and were proud of being a member of Pioneer! Sure they wished for better score placements, but nonetheless, if it came down to staying at home and watching from the theatre or from the stands, or marching with a "lower placing" WC corps, they will always choose marching!! It has given them opportunities to learn and grow not only as musicians, but as young adults. And those who would rather stay at home watching from the bleachers than march a lower ranking corps, it's your loss. You lose out on the experience. My boys have made friends throughout the DCI world. They have those great memories to treasure. Perhaps if more kids feel this way - those with talent that audition with upper WC corps and don't make it, could be getting this experience instead of wishing they were out there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanda Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Ok everybody, take a deep breath. The thread is about the process of a World Class Corps dropping down to open class. Please don't make this a thread about the Cascades. You can make a Cascades thread. If we keep on this track, it will end very badly. Thanks Too late for that you are the one that started making this about Cascades with your slams of them.... So far in reading comments I have counted 3 different numbers and as the thread grows the members of Cascades keep shrinking. Some on stated that the average member age was 13, IT IS NOT. Guard is smaller yes too small yes, but they also lost 5 kids between the start of all days and there first show due to sickness and injury. Yes the corps is smaller this year and there are a number of vets that did not return. Everyone of them I have spoken with it was mainly because of not being able to march corps and pay for college with the way the economy has been. Less than a hand full moved to a different corps. There have been many changes to Cascades in the last year for a number of reasons. And as a 3rd year parent it is the first year I have seen the support and strength grow from within the corps. This now shows all the way through the corps from the board, staff, members all the way down to the parents. Someone asked for a parents point of view on the lower tier corps I will quote what my daughter said to me after her first year " It is not about the destination, it is about the quality of the journey to the destination!" that is one of the few things she has learned marching Cascades. The educational value she has received from being part of Cascades goes way beyond this. She had opportunity this year to change which corps she was going to tour with (yes it was one of the higher tier corps) and guess what she made the choice to stay with Cascades. Until you spend time with this corps and get a feel for the dedication that runs deep through them DO NOT PASS JUDGEMENT on something you do not know about! Yes they have had bumps in there rebuilding and there may even be a few more along the way but trust me they will pull themselves up. You may not like this years show (I hated last years show) get over it or don't watch it, but don't spread rumors that they are in trouble. So there is the opinion of a flipping ###### off parent of a lower tier corps! P.S. OC has made the choice to stay open till they feel ready, and Thunder almost folded not to long ago and it is great to see them still in open class and I hope they can stay and grow. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanda Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 It seem like we just let them fall deeper and deeper in trouble alowing them to fold without intervention. I think some orginizations would benefit from droping back to open class and work there way back. They would lose a lot of members that want to march a full tour. And there is a group in the NW that is an off shoot kinda of Cascades building an open class corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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