Jeff Ream Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 And that is exactly what I'd like to know. What does constitute AE in DCI's mind? And, how are the judges incorporating this? Is this even a more subjective category than the others or are the judges just ignoring it? didn't see my post did you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatbrassboy Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 didn't see my post did you? Yes, and I was just trying to boil it down. I agree with you! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotorCityMusician Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 They wouldn't be winning, they'd be getting knocked for not being "difficult" enough. They've not been "challenged" ever nor do they get the benefit of the doubt. Ye, BD could sit down in chairs and play a game of checkers and max out the boxes on the sheets. For the record, I have not always liked everything Crown has done.... Togas anyone? Wasn't a big fan of the 2006 "Running Man" show either. I am not a Devils hater by any means (Ironically I was pulling for them to win a championship in 2006...the same year I disliked my own corps) I even LIKED moreso than many others their 2008 offering with the ABSURBITY show ($1 to Brandt Crocker)....so it's not a ABBD rant with me, but I find it confusing that BD never has a "bad idea" The Cavies show was a "bad idea" this year....but I imagine if BD were doing it, they'd be in 1st place. you avoided my one question lol. Would you hate it if Crown was doing it and was in 1st? its a hypothetical 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Honestly as far as clean...they are cleaner than everyone else. I do think the judges get sucked in by the smoke and mirrors. it's not often people are taking challenging step sizes when playing a lot of notes in the brass. the have so many focal points going on at once it can be distracting but they get credit for it. No, they arent insane like Crown or cadets with trying to play a ton on the run. I know I used to get ###### at cavies getting away with running under whole notes during their run. But the thing is this....it's entertainment. You have ONE...ONE...shot to make a good first impression. and if fans see a show, and it loses them or annoys them....why should they bother to "challenge themselves"? They shouldn't. And thats what drum corps designers need to get. I'll go on record and say a majority of fans aren't going to drum corps shows to be educated or have philosophy read to them. They want to see cool drill and hear cool tunes. Doesnt have to be music you know...it's all in how it's arranged. Flowing melodies, etc....and BD doesn't deliver that consistently. No they don't do conventional drum corps drill. And it irks fans. and until ( not you per se) the BD honks of the world get that, and understand their shows will #### fans off.....you'll see more and more of it. I respect the kids. They do a hell of a job. I get the design and why it is that way.They get the credit for it. My largest issue with it is late season. When other corps do get cleaner, yes you will see a gap between the book and performer numbers, and rightly so. but for BD, you should see a gap too.....performer should not be flat lined with the book number, it should be over. In some captions by a few tenths on each sheet ( not percussion...they seem to peak right before Allentown and go backwards through finals) You confused me here. Usually you see the book numbers higher than the performance numbers, which would mean the potential is still there to max out more of the book and obtain even higher total scores .... with a cleaner performance the book numbers may still go up because the performance is showing off new elements of the book that weren't clear before. I'm understanding you to say that the performance numbers should exceed the book numbers. To me that always means .. your show is dead. You've outperformed the book and you won't be going any higher than you already are (in fact, BD got numbers like this last night in Visual GE and the regular Visual caption). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 you avoided my one question lol. Would you hate it if Crown was doing it and was in 1st? its a hypothetical I think he answered it .. Crown wouldn't be in 1st doing a show like BD is doing this year. Plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 You confused me here. Usually you see the book numbers higher than the performance numbers, which would mean the potential is still there to max out more of the book and obtain even higher total scores .... with a cleaner performance the book numbers may still go up because the performance is showing off new elements of the book that weren't clear before. I'm understanding you to say that the performance numbers should exceed the book numbers. To me that always means .. your show is dead. You've outperformed the book and you won't be going any higher than you already are (in fact, BD got numbers like this last night in Visual GE and the regular Visual caption). you got it. They have maxed out what they were given. Now you shouldn't see it this early, IMO that's lazy judging. but by Allentown, BD should start performer numbers over the book on several sheets. As corps doing more running etc get cleaner, and things become more readable, they will get more credit for the what because the how is better, but few if anyone by BD deserve performer over the book on visual. so say at Finals in Vis Ensemble, Crown may get 98 book but 96 performer. Well, BD probably should get 95 book and 97 performer. But few judges have the balls to do more than go 95 95. Why? because there is a stigma attached to that...you're telling them they have achieved their book and need more. As someone who taught corps and bands....I'd kill to get a number like that. it means I gave the performers all they could handle, they maxed it out, and need more. Perfect way to end the year in my eyes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 As someone who taught corps and bands....I'd kill to get a number like that. it means I gave the performers all they could handle, they maxed it out, and need more. Perfect way to end the year in my eyes! And let's be honest, by the time they get to the last two corps of the night, the judge will probably have boxed himself in anyway. There are several judges, especially in brass, that are famous for stacking by a tenth. Almost as if they'd figured it out ahead of time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotorCityMusician Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I think he answered it .. Crown wouldn't be in 1st doing a show like BD is doing this year. Plain and simple. i was going for hypothetical that Minnesota scores were reversed and Crown had BDs show doing same exact things that everyones arguing about. Just seems like we are beating a rocking horse now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickhaltsforlife Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 you got it. They have maxed out what they were given. Now you shouldn't see it this early, IMO that's lazy judging. but by Allentown, BD should start performer numbers over the book on several sheets. As corps doing more running etc get cleaner, and things become more readable, they will get more credit for the what because the how is better, but few if anyone by BD deserve performer over the book on visual. so say at Finals in Vis Ensemble, Crown may get 98 book but 96 performer. Well, BD probably should get 95 book and 97 performer. But few judges have the balls to do more than go 95 95. Why? because there is a stigma attached to that...you're telling them they have achieved their book and need more. As someone who taught corps and bands....I'd kill to get a number like that. it means I gave the performers all they could handle, they maxed it out, and need more. Perfect way to end the year in my eyes! How is it that you always make me agree with everything you always say..... is it because I actually understand common sense or something. But seriously. DCI judges have always lacked balls in my opinion. There are some corps in the bottom 12 who march a whole lot better than corps in the top 12. Some of it comes down to number management. But at the smaller shows you CANNOT use that as an excuse. If a corps is better in a caption give them the correct number to put them up in that caption. Judges all over the marching actvity are afraid to actually rank groups the way that they should actually be ranked. Captions should be all over the place. Because there are a lot of corps, especially from 6 or 7th on back who have some really strong captions, and then they flat out suck in other captions. But it's odd when you see that actually reflected in the rankings. Where does BD fit in with all of this? I don't know. I understand why they score well... but I just don't know. They have found a loop hole. Kinda of like some corporations find tax loop holes. And they benefit greatly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 How is it that you always make me agree with everything you always say..... is it because I actually understand common sense or something. But seriously. DCI judges have always lacked balls in my opinion. There are some corps in the bottom 12 who march a whole lot better than corps in the top 12. Some of it comes down to number management. But at the smaller shows you CANNOT use that as an excuse. If a corps is better in a caption give them the correct number to put them up in that caption. Judges all over the marching actvity are afraid to actually rank groups the way that they should actually be ranked. Captions should be all over the place. Because there are a lot of corps, especially from 6 or 7th on back who have some really strong captions, and then they flat out suck in other captions. But it's odd when you see that actually reflected in the rankings. Where does BD fit in with all of this? I don't know. I understand why they score well... but I just don't know. They have found a loop hole. Kinda of like some corporations find tax loop holes. And they benefit greatly. theres no loop hole...they work the sheets and do it veryyyy well..and they do what they choose to do extremely well....they dont rely on the attempt of something but work their strengths..Sounds like smart programming to me.......gezz you would think Im a BD honk and Im not at all..lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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