The show MUST go on....NOT!

[JohnZ]

Was hoping you'd visit here John as figure you know more of the subject than just about anyone here. LOL - and you quoted my nicer post before I editted.

The way I'm reading the posts (and someone can correct me) is that the person in distress had to wait longer than he(?) should have before getting medical attention. Also the way I read the post I responded to is "It's OK he didn't get quick attention as it appeared to be a leg cramp". So on this case it wasn't EMTs honing on the leg injury it's EMTs not even being there for quite a while and that's OK. Or did we get off the orignal complaint of lack of response and I missed it.

So no problem with EMTs starting with a leg injury. But big problem with someone in the stands (or on the PC) saying what the problem is (because it's easy to tell) and saying it's not serious.

agreed. You have to believe that the marching member would choose not to be on the ground and would get up if they could - that they didn't would raise a red flag for me that it was serious enough that they needed attention.

I DO still struggle with the judge or others apparently not being attentive to the field, and not seeing the mm down for an extended time. And regardless where Medical were located, likely they would not enter the field until summoned.

[year1buick]

medical v trauma emergencies are vastly different, Jim. given the scenario, I think even a seasoned EMT or paramedic would home in on a leg injury.

You EMTs get all the action. You never hear, "Is there a dentist in the audience?!"

[JimF-LowBari]

And regardless where Medical were located, likely they would not enter the field until summoned.

That's something I never thought of before. Always think of EMTs hauling butt into whatever. But in the case of a show still going on that could cause even more problems/injuries with todays drill speeds. Would need someone on staff who knew when it was safe to move or how to get in and out.

[Phirefenix]

Maybe having an EMT or two on the front sideline, as well as the back sideline with a staff member present would cut down on response times for incidents like this. I agree that stopping a performance is difficult, and can lead to more injuries in the long run due to the nature of snapping the corps out of that show mindset. Having EMT's, with a visual staff member who knows the drill should help mitigate this in the future. It is still dangerous for the injured member, EMT, and judges out there. If the judge indeed saw the kid, and moved on that's a poor choice for the judge. We're all out there together, and when I marched we at least tried to look out for the judges, and in most cases the judges look out for us too. When the tenor player at Magic ate it in 2002 the perc judge ran over to check on him, and only left at the behest of the performer. That's the correct response IMO. If the kid can either move themselves off the field without aide, or get back into the drill then the judge should just offer due diligence in checking on them. In situations such as this however a little more aide from the judge, and quicker response from staff. Truth is, being on one sideline they simply may not have noticed. It's not that hard. Though with all things like this the point is to learn from it, and make the activity safer. I hope the member is in good care, and finds his way back on the field soon. As a contra player myself falling was a very serious fear in the back of my mind. There just isn't a pretty way to do it.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Phirefenix

[Stu]

If you're grabbing and holding your leg and looking around with a distressed look on your face that is a good clue it's a pulled muscle. If you aren't moving much and look like you may have passed out or are about to pass out, it's heat exhaustion. Not too hard to figure out.

Ok Genius; Here is an a-b-c-d question for you:

Johnny Drummer falls down abruptly; he is grabbing and holding his leg and looking around with a distressed look on his face (just like you, yes you described);

Did he?

A) Pull an Anterior of Posterior muscle (leg muscles).

B) Break a Fiblua or Tiblua (calf bones)

C) Tear a Patella Ligament (knee tendon)

D) You can only find out once you reach the person.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Stu

[JohnZ]

That's something I never thought of before. Always think of EMTs hauling butt into whatever. But in the case of a show still going on that could cause even more problems/injuries with todays drill speeds. Would need someone on staff who knew when it was safe to move or how to get in and out.

that's because we are usually the ones running the opposite way of everyone else! but we preach 'situational awareness' even standing by for these kinds of special events. our people and organizations I've advised have been counseled to introduce themselves to the folks on the field (hosts and/or chief judge) and establish staging, contingency and response protocol. As most are not generally familiar with the activity, I doubt even the others not as diligent would venture onto the field unless called anyway - they would all be assessing from a distance and preparing to go in a heartbeat though...

[jkingqm]

Ok guys. As someone who is trained and certified in First Aid, I mistakenly assumed my comment would be taken within the context of the entire standard CHECK-CALL-CARE protocol. It was meant as a initial visual assessment as an initial responder first becomes aware of the problem, not as a simple way to dismiss the entire situation. Sorry for any misunderstanding. Now back to BD hating....;-)

P.S. I work with developmentally disabled people so often I have to figure things out without the benefit of getting verbal or nonverbal answers to questions. Also please take my comment within that context.

Edited July 31, 2012 by jkingqm

[BozzlyB]

it is tough stopping a show like that in mid run.....someone else could get hurt.

More likely if someone is down on the field and can't get up by themselves, a body and a contra on the field where they shouldn't be is a train wreck waiting to happen. Hard to know if stopping the show is the right call, but getting the injured off the field immediately should be top priority. Maybe a signal that everyone is aware of that if initiated means play out the rest of the song in place, then reset the drill at beginning of next tune or something.

[Jeff Ream]

Excellent point, and sometimes it's not even the member's fault. There are bad fields, wet fields, someone falls and trips someone up, there are sprinklers sticking up, a shoe lace comes undone. In other words, S*%! happens. You can't blame the staff for that happening. And sometimes, parts of the body fail and let go. I wasn't expecting an injury, but it happened. Apparently my shoulder already had an undiagnosed problem, and just decided to tear itself apart during basics. These things happen.

amen. I went down once ue to nothing more than a wet field, and this was in 89. staff even told me I did everything right ( they dissected the video), it's just that field got dew on it as the night went on.

went out the next day, marched no problems, next weekend for finals and prelims no issues. freak moments happen

[Jeff Ream]

You are so right.

My son has a chipped front tooth that's been fixed at least three times...all from marching high school band.

Oh, and he chipped it the first time playing clarinet.

see? woodwinds are evil!!!