charlie1223 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) BD is currently hailed as the cleanest corps and it's often stressed that even if corps do harder/easier things it doesn't matter unless it's clean. I'm wondering if corps like (SCV, Phantom, Bluecoats, or even Blue stars and Crossmen) if they were 100% clean would they be on top? So, I'm asking how far down do you need to go till a corps 100% clean show would still not win DCI. Trying to find the line between how clean something is, vs. how hard it is, vs. how well it's designed. Would a perfectly clean BD still beat a perfectly clean Cadets, Madison, Crown, etc.? I think that if you take away the cleanliness factor it becomes more revealing about what goes into winning DCI shows. Not all corps shows are created equal but where is that line drawn? Edited August 1, 2012 by charlie1223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerguy315 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 All IMO... Design drives the score. Clean or not will only move you around in your little grouping of corps. Each year there are only 1 or 2 shows that can win DCI (very rarely there are 3) based on design. This year, a perfectly clean BD beats everyone, with the possible exception of a perfectly clean Crown. A perfectly clean Madison might move up 1 spot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitmomma Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 All IMO... Design drives the score. Clean or not will only move you around in your little grouping of corps. Each year there are only 1 or 2 shows that can win DCI (very rarely there are 3) based on design. This year, a perfectly clean BD beats everyone, with the possible exception of a perfectly clean Crown. A perfectly clean Madison might move up 1 spot. What he said. (and no, he's not talking about slotting) DCI does NOT reward attempt- they reward performance- in design, musicality and proficiency (I'm paraphrasing here- I know of the subcaptions). They judge each show individually based upon it's merits in the captions provided. In this activity, you better darn well bring it on ALL fronts. You better be clean. You better have a well designed show *that your performers can ACTUALLY MARCH AND PLAY CLEAN*. Your drumline needs to be squeaky, your brass musical and in tune, your visual **very** cleverly designed and impeccable, and your performers need to sell it to those judges. If you can do all that better than everyone else, you win! I personally have seen corps win this that were NOT the cleanest on the field, but in other areas were superior. It's extremely important to remember that at the end of the day, the corps that can do the most things right, in the eyes of the judges, wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 What he said. (and no, he's not talking about slotting) DCI does NOT reward attempt- they reward performance- in design, musicality and proficiency (I'm paraphrasing here- I know of the subcaptions). They judge each show individually based upon it's merits in the captions provided. In this activity, you better darn well bring it on ALL fronts. You better be clean. You better have a well designed show *that your performers can ACTUALLY MARCH AND PLAY CLEAN*. Your drumline needs to be squeaky, your brass musical and in tune, your visual **very** cleverly designed and impeccable, and your performers need to sell it to those judges. If you can do all that better than everyone else, you win! I personally have seen corps win this that were NOT the cleanest on the field, but in other areas were superior. It's extremely important to remember that at the end of the day, the corps that can do the most things right, in the eyes of the judges, wins. ...and if you don't think there is pressure brought to bear from some very big names..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) What he said. (and no, he's not talking about slotting) DCI does NOT reward attempt- they reward performance- in design, musicality and proficiency (I'm paraphrasing here- I know of the subcaptions). They judge each show individually based upon it's merits in the captions provided. In this activity, you better darn well bring it on ALL fronts. You better be clean. You better have a well designed show *that your performers can ACTUALLY MARCH AND PLAY CLEAN*. Your drumline needs to be squeaky, your brass musical and in tune, your visual **very** cleverly designed and impeccable, and your performers need to sell it to those judges. If you can do all that better than everyone else, you win! I personally have seen corps win this that were NOT the cleanest on the field, but in other areas were superior. It's extremely important to remember that at the end of the day, the corps that can do the most things right, in the eyes of the judges, wins. Right but if every corps DOES do everything right in the eyes of the judges then what? I think a perfectly executed/performed Crown and a Perfectly executed Cadets can beat a perfectly executed BD. I hear most people saying that they do not question BD's ability to perform cleanly and they concede that BD is better. But you take that out and you rely on what to decide who is better? Edited August 1, 2012 by charlie1223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kamarag Posted August 1, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted August 1, 2012 BD is currently hailed as the cleanest corps and it's often stressed that even if corps do harder/easier things it doesn't matter unless it's clean. Well, the champion last year wasn't even remotely clean. So, there you go. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitmomma Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Well, the champion last year wasn't even remotely clean. So, there you go. THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHorner Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I think, if everybody had the same performance ability, and one was judging the design only (what I assume the OP means), then BD, Cadets, or Phantom would win. The reason being, from a design standpoint (and my opinion), these are the 3 best staged and designed shows. However, if one then said that design should include the difficulty of a show, then Crown or Cadets would win. It is really an opinion, and the judges are likely forced to think the same way. Does one award increased difficulty with some dirt (Crown) or excellent design and cleanliness (BD)? It's not an easy question for me to answer for myself, and I'm sure the judges don't like to decide either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Ooooooh Ooh I know I know! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Think of it this way: 1. Easy show = 2 2. Medium Easy show = 4 3. Medium show = 6 4. Medium advanced show = 8 5. Advanced show = 10 A. Sloppy performance = 2 B. medium sloppy performance = 4 C. Average cleanliness = 6 D. Clean show = 8 E. very clean show = 10 Now this is just an analogy, but suppose corps 1 has a show that is medium in demand (6 points) and clean (8 points). There total score is 14. Corps 2 has a show that is medium advanced (8) and is also clean (8). They get 16 points. Now imagine doing this with brass, ensemble, percussion, guard, GE, and visual ex. Content plays a part in scoring, not just cleaning. Musicality, nuance, design, general effect, the ability for your percussion score to communicate artistically with the brass and pit, the syncing of the visual elements, and the performance of the members. It all adds up. Cleaning is just one aspect. People often like to say "if so and so corps cleans they are going to win." in reality we don't know this. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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