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DCI 30 years ago, and the decline of Drum Corps.

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The truth of the matter is in here somewhere.

Indoor is a BIG deal nowadays. That was a product of outdoor percussion and the seeds of it were planted by drum corps people in band programs.

It's all "corps style" stuff.

As is WGI.

Band programs are now offering in spades the experience that only DCI could offer before...high level marching and music that is a byproduct of emulating the excellence that came from the DCI experience.

Once the two "factions"...band and drum corps...melded together after YEARS AND YEARS of discord and derision between the two (remember THAT from your marching days?) the landscape changed and kids today have the opportunity for a school level experience that is EXCELLENT and a summer experience that is as well. They can choose to do BOTH...or they can choose one or the other.

BANDS are BETTER, arguably because of drum corps.

MORE kids are doing this "marching thing", and at a high level....arguably because of drum corps. YEA is a baby that drum corps birthed.

There are states where BOA, etc has EXPLODED....and, if you look at the staffs of the good/great bands...its ALL drum corps people (and the schools tend to pay pretty well, too which means drum corps people have created opportunities for themselves and others using their drum corps experience and parlaying that into an economy...I know this because i draw from that as well)

Drum corps contributed in SO MANY WAYS to the expansion of the marching arts....not as a SUMMER thing that was a kind of secret society, but as a YEAR ROUND thing.

Here's a tough pill to swallow: kids in GREAT band programs might not want to "settle" for being in GOOD drum corps and would rather do something else in the summer just before band camp. A girl in, say, Flanagan's color guard doesnt feel like she is missing out if she isnt marching during the summer ... Blue Devils or not...because she'll be in rehearsal soon enough with a POWERHOUSE guard and band come the 3rd week of August. Is a Tarpon Springs kid "missing out" on excellent marching arts participation if they dont march during the summer? Its hard to make that argument.

We aint the only game in town anymore. And, by being excellent and sharing those skills and talents as teachers (and going to B instruments) we did it to ourselves...and at the same time, made marching arts BIGGER and BETTER than ever.

Have you ever seen indoor percussion? Drum Corps type stuff is stronger than ever!

I hosted a couple open calass kids at my small condo where my oldest sleeps in the living room. What have you done to help?

Yea didn't think so!

Edited by wishbonecav
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Likewise, thanks for the dialogue.

regards,

Fred O.

hey Fred, do you live/teach in Jersey??! If so, then you know me! :)

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My prediction . . .

RE: 2013 CHAMPIONSHIP

The term MOST POPULAR CORPS might be created as early as next season and this will be determined by a vote that is tallied following the performance at the end of the season. It will NOT be counted by scores of a dci set of judges. It will be calculated from a combination of online devices. The only question is whether dci will play a role in this voting or not.

If this same vote where held today, it is doubtful that BD would finish in the top 5 finishers.

In the long term, this will be good for BUSINESS. :thumbup:

After attending allentown for two days last weekend I found BD to have the most entertaining, best designed, and best performed show on the field.

So much for your theory of what everyone thinks.

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hey Fred, do you live/teach in Jersey??! If so, then you know me! :)

What is this....."What's my Line?" :tongue:

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A few years back (before TOC, in 2009 I think) their was an exhibition performance in Vegas with Bluecoats, BD and several other corps. It was a privately sanctioned event and not subject to DCI rules.....many innovations were attempted including encores, corps interactions, lot stuff, a head to head drum battle (ala Drumline) between BD and Bluecoats, and (as you suggest) a voting process from your smart phone by ticket holders with passwords from the ticket (if I recall correctly). Honestly, it was an interesting concept, but being voted "most popular" in drum corps is a little like having your mom make you a medal and present it to you....after you have lost some competition. It's a sweet gesture...but that's about it. NOTE: The Disney Award, on the other hand, was very cool (IMO) and reflected both audience appeal and artistry in a way that had weight. I wish Disney would bring it back.

That leads to the real meat of the issue in drum corps these days IMO....disunity in the business model approach. Cirque changed the circus because they changed the business model and focused the artistic impact. Getting all these DCI directors and leadership headed in the same direction (whatever that might be) is impossible, apparently because there's too much history. So we are left to minor course correction and nipping around the edges....basically survival....some years, better than others.

you're really close.

but it's not just history...it's personal agendas too. See to some, only they matter, while not looking at the much larger picture, which is this:

the fewer corps there are, the less likely it is drum corps produces that next generation. See while I agree going after band kids is a key, you need more places for people to march and become hooked, so they then stay as fans.the average band kid will move on in life and leave drum corps behind

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The truth of the matter is in here somewhere.

Indoor is a BIG deal nowadays. That was a product of outdoor percussion and the seeds of it were planted by drum corps people in band programs.

It's all "corps style" stuff.

As is WGI.

Band programs are now offering in spades the experience that only DCI could offer before...high level marching and music that is a byproduct of emulating the excellence that came from the DCI experience.

Once the two "factions"...band and drum corps...melded together after YEARS AND YEARS of discord and derision between the two (remember THAT from your marching days?) the landscape changed and kids today have the opportunity for a school level experience that is EXCELLENT and a summer experience that is as well. They can choose to do BOTH...or they can choose one or the other.

BANDS are BETTER, arguably because of drum corps.

MORE kids are doing this "marching thing", and at a high level....arguably because of drum corps. YEA is a baby that drum corps birthed.

There are states where BOA, etc has EXPLODED....and, if you look at the staffs of the good/great bands...its ALL drum corps people (and the schools tend to pay pretty well, too which means drum corps people have created opportunities for themselves and others using their drum corps experience and parlaying that into an economy...I know this because i draw from that as well)

Drum corps contributed in SO MANY WAYS to the expansion of the marching arts....not as a SUMMER thing that was a kind of secret society, but as a YEAR ROUND thing.

Here's a tough pill to swallow: kids in GREAT band programs might not want to "settle" for being in GOOD drum corps and would rather do something else in the summer just before band camp. A girl in, say, Flanagan's color guard doesnt feel like she is missing out if she isnt marching during the summer ... Blue Devils or not...because she'll be in rehearsal soon enough with a POWERHOUSE guard and band come the 3rd week of August. Is a Tarpon Springs kid "missing out" on excellent marching arts participation if they dont march during the summer? Its hard to make that argument.

We aint the only game in town anymore. And, by being excellent and sharing those skills and talents as teachers (and going to B instruments) we did it to ourselves...and at the same time, made marching arts BIGGER and BETTER than ever.

actually, while more bands compete than they did back in the day, the average band is smaller than they used to be

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See while I agree going after band kids is a key, you need more places for people to march and become hooked, so they then stay as fans.the average band kid will move on in life and leave drum corps behind

More DCI crack houses = More DCI crack heads.

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Here's a tough pill to swallow: kids in GREAT band programs might not want to "settle" for being in GOOD drum corps and would rather do something else in the summer just before band camp. A girl in, say, Flanagan's color guard doesnt feel like she is missing out if she isnt marching during the summer ... Blue Devils or not...because she'll be in rehearsal soon enough with a POWERHOUSE guard and band come the 3rd week of August. Is a Tarpon Springs kid "missing out" on excellent marching arts participation if they dont march during the summer? Its hard to make that argument.

We aint the only game in town anymore. And, by being excellent and sharing those skills and talents as teachers (and going to B instruments) we did it to ourselves...and at the same time, made marching arts BIGGER and BETTER than ever.

I started in one of those amazing band programs during the start of the whole BOA thing. I actually felt like I had stepped down during points of my corps days because I was so use to being on top during my high school days.

That being said, the high school was taught by corps folks and we were never encouraged to march corps. There was one photo that was described to us as the "Perception of Perfection" - That one photo encouraged me to march. That photo was of a SCV hornline in a marching front - ALL hats level, plumes up, toes exact same height. That one photo made me research what Corps was and find a place to march. It also introduced me to worlds of music and entertainment that I had never heard. Corps shows during that time gave me a true glimpse into the original works. I do not get that same feeling today. Many of the shows are pieced together jumbled up collages that are truly difficult to determine what they truly are.

I do appreciate this years BD show because it introduces the world to a lost book of the ART HISTORY bible - DADA. Dada was suppressed by many critics due to its nonsense and political nature. Dada was the birth place of many "ism"s that we know today - Cubism, Surrealism, POP, just to name a few. I am not sure that the drum corps field is a place for this show but it is the only show that gives me that sense of wonder. But I am an artist with that art history degree.

I cannot stand the electronics because I have yet to hear it used wisely. I have problem with much of the dance for the exact same reason. I am okay with both but just use it wisely, properly and for purpose. I would love to hear G bugles again but horn deals have killed that.

They should be able to bring all the wonderful gym floor experience to the field but they should not be able to destroy one art for the sake of another. There should be some way to balance it. This lack of balance is where many of the issues and controversy are occurring.

Edited by Kevin Powell
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More DCI crack houses = More DCI crack heads.

uh yeah ok

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A few years back (before TOC, in 2009 I think) their was an exhibition performance in Vegas with Bluecoats, BD and several other corps. It was a privately sanctioned event and not subject to DCI rules.....many innovations were attempted including encores, corps interactions, lot stuff, a head to head drum battle (ala Drumline) between BD and Bluecoats, and (as you suggest) a voting process from your smart phone by ticket holders with passwords from the ticket (if I recall correctly). Honestly, it was an interesting concept, but being voted "most popular" in drum corps is a little like having your mom make you a medal and present it to you....after you have lost some competition. It's a sweet gesture...but that's about it. NOTE: The Disney Award, on the other hand, was very cool (IMO) and reflected both audience appeal and artistry in a way that had weight. I wish Disney would bring it back.

That leads to the real meat of the issue in drum corps these days IMO....disunity in the business model approach. Cirque changed the circus because they changed the business model and focused the artistic impact. Getting all these DCI directors and leadership headed in the same direction (whatever that might be) is impossible, apparently because there's too much history. So we are left to minor course correction and nipping around the edges....basically survival....some years, better than others.

I did not know about this instance in Las Vegas during 2009. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. My understanding is that from this lone experiment it seemed like a "sweet gesture" and I see the point you are trying to make. But imagine if the scores and judging that currently exist were eliminated or reduced in importance and the score that really counted was the one that was voted on by the LIVE audience who was watching ---NOT ONLY in the stadium but in theaters and on pay-per-view at home. Don't you agree that it would be less a "sweet gesture" and more the all-important, ONE AND ONLY goal? This is sort of the American Idol Model. "If I don't get the vote, I don't come back next week/win."

My point is, the idea of LIVE audience voting THAT MEANS SOMETHING is one that needs serious consideration and experimentation. You can't try it out once and move on. It could prove to be the thing that saves drum corps.

Actually this brings up another interesting question about how the staff of a corps like Madison preps their members leading up to the show on Saturday night. What are their goals? Do they say, "We want you to score 2.4 more points or move up 2 places?" Or do they say, "We want you to rock the place and bring people to their feet 3 times?" What does Crown tell their members? How about BD? "Let's go undefeated? Score the most points ever? Or, "Have the time of your life?" I guess these questions could be a new thread all by themselves. I happen to think Madison has long ago told their members that the staff will try to create a show and teach them how to get a high score, but they want THEM to have a great time ENTERTAINING people in the stands.

As for your comments about similarities between Cirque du Soleil and Drum Corps, lets not start that discussion here. It is also a subject that deserves a thread of its own. And I happen to have spent a good portion of my life as an agent and producer dealing with the Ringlings and Cirque people and my brain hurts just thinking about it. They are NOT like Drum Corps people. Trust me. :sleepy:

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