wesleyrp Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 NFL Football. Go Bears! Go Cowgirls.... I mean Cowboys!!!! U can tell I have faith in Jerry:/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 They (Surf) had far and away the biggest crowd reactions at Allentown, quarterfinals and semifinals. And they did it in Indy with half a crowd in the stands. A convincing argument why crowd reaction should not be used to determine the winner. Do you think I'm wrong? Run a drum corps show where Surf is the headliner with other non-finalist corps and see how many fans attend, then compare that to a show where a top 3, a top 6 and a top 12 is present. Fans vote with the money, No disrespect here for Surf, because I said "wow" after seeing them on FN very early in the season, I loved 'em. I would like seeing Surf as part of a package with the top corps, but they are not what puts butts in the seats. That's why the TOC is a successful touring model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 (edited) God forbid if the Blue Devils show style catches on and is copied by other corps. What I just don't understand is, it is human nature to want to be liked & accepted by others. Why doesn't the BD staff ever decide that they are going to be the crowd favorite & design a show that fans love? Yikes, another self-appointed spokesman for the masses. You are entitled you your opinion, by all means. But c'mon Flam', cut it out with the crowd-favorite, show-that-fans-love stuff, as though the audience is a homogeneous group who all share your opinion and have chosen you to carry their flag into battle. I'm certain you don't speak for me. I thought Blue Devils were fantastic this year, both performance and programming-wise - a worthy and well-chosen champion. Peace, Fred O. Edited August 12, 2012 by drumno5 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBarO Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 (edited) Yikes, another self-appointed spokesman for the masses. You are entitled you your opinion, by all means. But c'mon Flam', cut it out with the crowd-favorite, show-that-fans-love stuff, as though the audience is a homogeneous group who all share your opinion and have chosen you to carry their flag into battle. I'm certain you don't speak for me. I thought Blue Devils were fantastic this year, both performance and programming-wise - a worthy and well-chosen champion. Your right - dangerous to speak for the masses. I think it's reasonable to say that some significant percentage of fans believe the changes in shows (synth, dancing etc..) are not preferred over good old fashioned percussion and brass. (And btw - I do believe that the general talent and execution of BD in more than noteworthy........ this is more a discussion about design and subjectivity) I find that the rationale I hear from BD (and I'll throw in BK this year just for good measure ) fans seems like a paradox. First, most BD and BK fans are quick to point out how the judges appear to like what they are doing... and I'll admit, that does seem to be the case. One was crowned champion, and the other received significant "attaboys" for multiple categories that are arguably very design driven. But the minute one begins to question whether the judges have it "right"; they start down the entire - "it's art"; "it's subjective and evolving"; "You can't limit creativity with ...." "DaDa ..." you get the idea. Well - isnt this entire discussion just a bit circular? Doesnt that line of thought turn the tables, and make the dinosaurs who perform old school marching drills the creative non-conformists? And suddenly it is the artists delivering the evolution of creative license to the masses that are using the stifling standard of a scorecard to justify what they are doing.......... Hmmmm, kinda makes my head hurt. Edited August 12, 2012 by JBarO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardlyworking Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I'm really glad I went to bed long before the show was over...reading all of the discussions on here definitely would have kept me awake for a few extra hours! Anyway...congrats to BD. I had you guys pegged as the winners all the way back in San Antonio. Seeing you live in Atlanta just made me believe it even more. As for Crown? BY FAR, the best show they've ever had. Any other year and I could see it winning. When you've got two shows of such high caliber like that, it's gonna come down to who can execute their product better, and in that regard, I tip my hat to the Blue Devils. This was definitely one of the best seasons of drum corps I've seen in a while. I don't think I've seen a season with this many likable shows since...2003, maybe (personal preference)? Strong performances and very exciting shows all around. I can't wait to see what all of these great corps have in store for us in 2013! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurkeCrownFan Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Anyway...congrats to BD. I had you guys pegged as the winners all the way back in San Antonio. I had BD pegged as the winner before I ever saw thier show, it just seems to work out that way almost every year no matter what. They get away with stuff the other corps can not get away with! As for Crown? BY FAR, the best show they've ever had. Any other year and I could see it winning. When you've got two shows of such high caliber like that, it's gonna come down to who can execute their product better, and in that regard, I tip my hat to the Blue Devils. Agreed that it is by far the best show Crown has ever done, and IMNSHO it was worthy of being first place. As for BD, it's not hard to execute a show whose theme is non conformism. When that is your theme, you can really get away with murder. There is no reason for clean, straight lines, music can be discordant and it is easy to claim that was planned. To me the BD's show was a total anti-thesis of what Drum Corps and all marching arts is supposed to be about. I too am anxious for 2013, but I am afraid, like many others here, that more corps will try to copy what BD did this year, and take the activity much further away from what pleases the crowd, and they will start pandering toward the "High Art" that the judges seem to favor, but that which will ultimately keep butts out of seats. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardlyworking Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I had BD pegged as the winner before I ever saw thier show, it just seems to work out that way almost every year no matter what. They get away with stuff the other corps can not get away with! They have a well-built organization that's been consistent since the mid-90's. How many other corps can say that? Agreed that it is by far the best show Crown has ever done, and IMNSHO it was worthy of being first place. Well, at least you stand by your bias. Can't argue with that. As for BD, it's not hard to execute a show whose theme is non conformism. When that is your theme, you can really get away with murder. There is no reason for clean, straight lines, music can be discordant and it is easy to claim that was planned. I'm sorry, this...this just doesn't make any sense. I don't know what lines you were looking at, but they were performing their drill just as well as any of the corps around them (though obviously a little bit cleaner, since they won and all). But what the hell do you mean by getting away with "discordant music?" Seriously, I do not understand what point you're trying to make there. To me the BD's show was a total anti-thesis of what Drum Corps and all marching arts is supposed to be about. Right, just like dadaism goes against everything we know about art. It was never meant to be a "traditional" drum corps show, just like dada is not "traditional" art. I too am anxious for 2013, but I am afraid, like many others here, that more corps will try to copy what BD did this year, and take the activity much further away from what pleases the crowd, and they will start pandering toward the "High Art" that the judges seem to favor, but that which will ultimately keep butts out of seats. So many people say this every year that BD wins, and yet I don't see it. Nobody's copying BD. Cadets didn't copy BD last year. BD does their own thing, which is to sometimes step outside of the box and do things people are uncomfortable with. They just execute their product better than everybody else, and that's why they win. It's not because it's artsy-fartsy. I'd love to see a show like Madison's win the title, but the fact is they're just not clean enough. Entertaining? You bet...but it's not the only factor that goes into winning. If it were, Jersey Surf would have gotten a medal this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurkeCrownFan Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I'm sorry, this...this just doesn't make any sense. I don't know what lines you were looking at, but they were performing their drill just as well as any of the corps around them (though obviously a little bit cleaner, since they won and all). Crooked lines, here you go my friend, crooked as a dogs hind leg: Notice that I added a straight line to show what a straight line should be. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMcomguy Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 (edited) No disrespect here for Surf, because I said "wow" after seeing them on FN very early in the season, I loved 'em. I would like seeing Surf as part of a package with the top corps, but they are not what puts butts in the seats. That's why the TOC is a successful touring model. I sat next to a former director, now 'Friend of DCI' VIP of a certain Top 3 World Class corps last night. He agreed that Jersey Surf stole the show at every event he saw them at this summer, and believes THIS is what people (i.e. the 80% of fans there that know nothing about the activity whatsoever...) want to see. He also admitted while they couldn't march their way out of a paper bag, his words, not mine, that it was his favorite show of the year and would pay just to see it in exhibition. This guy also marched 5 years long ago and was drum major, winning several DCI titles. Take that FWIW. True story! Edited August 12, 2012 by IMcomguy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I think Michael Cesario was right when he said BK's show was designed to win in 2015. By then you will see most of the corps with these types of shows. I think it's a good thing. Of course you would think it's a good thing. Your avatar is of someone in a Blue Knights uniform. I think it's a very bad thing to go with this type of design... It's fine for a couple of groups to do, but not for every group. I also believe that Michael Cesario was joking when he said that. It's quite obvious what is being pushed as innovative now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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