skywhopper Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) It seems DCI changes the format of classes, finals week, caption awards etc every few years. I suspect if they throw all the corps in one division it will only last one or two years. By then someone will see that the Colt Cadets should not be matched up agains Santa Clara in Semi Finals. Yeah. This plus all the relatively major rule changes in the past 15 years have made DCI in general look pretty panicky, and the lack of stability in the framework does nothing to help retention of fans, donors, or corps. Whatever changes are coming (I feel that part is inevitable), I hope they can keep things stable for a few years to settle in to whatever new structure they've chosen, and not give in to the urge to tweak things (sometimes drastically) year-in and year-out. Edited August 16, 2012 by skywhopper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) I'm just curious, Plan, give me your best guess: How many fans do you think would come out and pay, say $20, to see the battle between the 13th- and 17th-placing corps? And to give you a hint, we had about 3300 come to see our show of 7 corps, headlined by BD and anchored by Oregon Crusaders. On July 31st. Oh Grasshopper, you of such little imagination. It wouldn't take much of an effort to combine the corps at ALL shows in a way that integrates the performances of the Tiers. Every show including regionals would have a mix of corps performing so that there are a sufficient number in each category performing. Everyone would understand that a 13-17 corps was actually competing against a 13-17 corps either at that show or across the country in some other show. Sounds like what happens now. When Regional Shows come up, then you could break them out into Tiers...WC Tier 2 and then WC Tier 1 or even 4, 3, 2 and 1. This is done to some degree now and this would only add a sense of competition to other levels that already exist informally already. Edited August 16, 2012 by Plan9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) so in other words, have world class and open class here's a serious question. When in this world did we all of a sudden need to have multiple winners for the sake of having multiple winners? Simple...when Americans became enamored with competitive entertainment. Let me see..... America's Got Talent, American Idol, Dancing with the Stars, Top Chef, Survivor, The Apprentice, Top Model, The Bachelor (forgive me), Top Everything,.......need I go on? Winning and Losing is in our nature and the majority of our society is fascinated with it. So, make peace with competition and embrace it. Finally, just look at the number of threads that pop up each year (this more than most) dealing with the disappointment of outcomes and the desire to split from the activity as a result. The Corps did their thing, performed beautifully, pouring their hearts out and we ##### about outcomes. That, my friend, is competition. So...to elevate the interest, you need to elevate the number of competitive Tiers and bring what is already in the trenches to the award stand. Edited August 16, 2012 by Plan9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 I hate the idea. So you let a small Open Class corps score a 30 at the first show and and finish the season at a 60 and compete with The Cadets head to head? Why no make every show random order so the crown can get in on the fun? As far as I can tell the current system works just fine. It seems DCI changes the format of classes, finals week, caption awards etc every few years. I suspect if they throw all the corps in one division it will only last one or two years. By then someone will see that the Colt Cadets should not be matched up agains Santa Clara in Semi Finals. The G7 concept really ticks me off. When did it become the G8? As memory serves the original corps in the "Great 7" were The Cadets, The Cavaliers, Blue Devils, Bluecoats, Phantom Regiment, Santa Clara Vanguard and Carolina Crown. The TOC is 8 corps, for whatever reason. I suspect the TOC invited 8 corps so they wouldn't seem exclusive. By the way, the first corps in the TOC that wasn't G7 is the Blue Stars, a corps that now sits in 13th place. One word: Tiers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 The other side of the coin (literally) is the potential for appearance money for OC level corps. Assuming that could be negotiated, I most definitely like the idea. The little guys could use some help. Survival trumps scoring considerations, IMHO. I agree with you on this - the people that may not agree might be those corps ranking 10 and lower who are struggling a little themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyboy Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Tiers is an awful idea. Does anyone remember "Drumcorps Associate Champion" concept? They made the the 13th place corps the Associate Champion, or the champion of the rest. I think it was awarded on Friday night. The top twelve went on to Saturday night where they crowned the DCI Champ. It was probably the late 70s or early 80s and didn't last long. So tiers? Put all the corps in one class and at Quarter Finals give the 26th place corps a "Best of the Low Teir" gold medals. Semi Finals you could give 13th place a "Best of the Middle of the Pack", and on finals night you crown "Best of the Rest". Confusing, lame, worthless. Why not just give everyone one a gold medal to everyone? 17th place would get "Gold Medal top 17", 16th place would get "Gold Medal top 16, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spandy Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) My thought: World Class: Must tour for at least 6 weeks AND perform in at least 25 shows. All World Class corps would receive the highest performance fee. Open Class: Any corps that tour for a total of at least 4 weeks and doesn't meet World Class criteria. All Open Class corps would receive the middle performance fee. Class A: Everybody else. No touring requirements. All Class A corps receive the lowest performance fee. Open Class and Class A would be on the same sheets and perform against each other at Finals, but whoever places highest in each respective class would be crowned Champion. This way, there wouldn't be a 5-corps Class A championship and a 10-ish corps Open Class Championship, but a 14 or 20 or whatever A/Open championship with two winners. This would never happen though, at least not with this pay scale, because the top corps would have to give up getting more money than everyone else Edited August 16, 2012 by Spandy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doylejd Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 My thought: World Class: Must tour for at least 6 weeks AND perform in at least 25 shows. All World Class corps would receive the highest performance fee. Open Class: Any corps that tour for a total of at least 4 weeks and doesn't meet World Class criteria. All Open Class corps would receive the middle performance fee. Class A: Everybody else. No touring requirements. All Class A corps receive the lowest performance fee. Open Class and Class A would be on the same sheets and perform against each other at Finals, but whoever places highest in each respective class would be crowned Champion. This way, there wouldn't be a 5-corps Class A championship and a 10-ish corps Open Class Championship, but a 14 or 20 or whatever A/Open championship with two winners. This would never happen though, at least not with this pay scale, because the top corps would have to give up getting more money than everyone else Let's be best friends. I was literally coming in to once again talk about a weekend-only, WGI Percussion-esque A Class. I really think that is the only way drum corps is going to survive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Tiers is an awful idea. Does anyone remember "Drumcorps Associate Champion" concept? They made the the 13th place corps the Associate Champion, or the champion of the rest. I think it was awarded on Friday night. The top twelve went on to Saturday night where they crowned the DCI Champ. It was probably the late 70s or early 80s and didn't last long. So tiers? Put all the corps in one class and at Quarter Finals give the 26th place corps a "Best of the Low Teir" gold medals. Semi Finals you could give 13th place a "Best of the Middle of the Pack", and on finals night you crown "Best of the Rest". Confusing, lame, worthless. Why not just give everyone one a gold medal to everyone? 17th place would get "Gold Medal top 17", 16th place would get "Gold Medal top 16, etc. That was a different time. I bet if you asked the Open Class Champion, or AAA Baseball League, etc if they felt like they were are Lower Class anything, they would say that they competed at their level and won. It's not about relegating any participant to a lower class, but recognizing that these tiers exist unofficially anyway, and most of these corps live in those tiers for decades. Ideas that didn't work 30 years ago might just make sense today. Yes, it still could be an awful idea, but it's worth discussion or at least recognition that the tiers exist and deserve reward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 I may get things backwards sometimes, but I can read between the lines. I have heard talk of a developing proposal, and the topics coming up in this discussion confirm the rumors I have been hearing. Combine the classes, but create new tiers? That just serves to adjust the relative number of haves versus have-nots, in favor of the haves. Top 12 as a new payout tier? How will the next 12 compete with that? More separate events for separate tiers? Which events should we separate next? We already did Friday and Sunday. Who wants to see the big Saturday regionals with top-corps-only shows, or separate tiers on separate tours during the week? Those are the only possibilities. Give open-class appearance fees, but take away their championship events? You can bet that the fee payouts will be set so that this change is a cost saving to DCI. I think flammaster had it right - the end times are coming. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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