Dear Dinosaurs

[Vis]

The Opera atarted in Italy in 1597. It fundamentally has not changed in over 400 years.

What would happen if the General Manager of the Mew York Metropolitan Opera ( Peter Gelb ) decided to tell his Opera Patrons that next season he was going to " modernize the Opera " by changing all the Operas performed there into English ?

I know.. its a silly question. The change would be rejected in a heartbeat and he'd be booted out of the Met.

You don't change the Opera or the Symphony Orchestra... the patrons of these would draw and quarter you for such a heretical suggestion. They want them to stay exactly as they have been for the next 400 years.

[Vis]

When Peter Gelb took over at the Met, he was faced with the dilemna of satisfying his older tradional patrons who were his major source of funding or moderning the productions to bring in a younger audience he'd need for funding when the older wealthier ones were no longer around. He decided to take the provocative route, and risk rattling the old guard by bringing in directors and creative contributors from the worlds of film, avante guard theater, modern dance, and the art world. Much controversy ensued. Some of these productions were disasters, others were pure genius. Over time, I think Met patrons learned to judge each production on it's own artistic merits, instead of judging in generalization. The Met seems to have reached a place where there is appreciation for both, and the generational divide which was a factor in Gelb's early days seems less of an issue each year.

[BRASSO]

When Peter Gelb took over at the Met, he was faced with the dilemna of satisfying his older tradional patrons who were his major source of funding or moderning the productions to bring in a younger audience he'd need for funding when the older wealthier ones were no longer around. He decided to take the provocative route, and risk rattling the old guard by bringing in directors and creative contributors from the worlds of film, avante guard theater, modern dance, and the art world. Much controversy ensued. Some of these productions were disasters, others were pure genius. Over time, I think Met patrons learned to judge each production on it's own artistic merits, instead of judging in generalization. The Met seems to have reached a place where there is appreciation for both, and the generational divide which was a factor in Gelb's early days seems less of an issue each year.

I think we can broaden this discussion too from the more localized NY Met Opera situation and come to an agreement on the following on a more worlwide basis as a true and accuate assessment of the Opera :

Opera the last 400 years has undergone less transformative changes worldwide in its instrumentation and fundamentals of construct utilized in performance, than DCI Drum Corps has undergone in the last 40 years. I believe most objective, non biased observers would agree with this overall seemingly rational assessment, would you agree ?

Edited August 31, 2012 by BRASSO

[GUARDLING]

I think we can broaden this discussion too from the more localized NY Met Opera situation and come to an agreement on the following on a more worlwide basis as a true and accuate assessment of the Opera :

I believe most objective, non biased observers would agree with this overall seemingly rational assessment, would you agree ?

lol...now youre being funny.............forget where you were?

[BRASSO]

lol...now youre being funny.............forget where you were?

You'd agree, wouldn't you, that Drum Corps has undergone more transformative changes in the last 40 years in its instrumentation and fundamentals of the construct ultilized in performance than has Opera in the last 400 years. You'd accept this overall assessment, no ?

Edited August 31, 2012 by BRASSO

[GUARDLING]

You'd agree, wouldn't you, that Drum Corps has undergone more transformative changes in the last 40 years in its instrumentation and fundamentals of construct ultilized in performance than has Opera in the last 400 years. You'd accept this overall assessment, no ?

lol......ok

[danielray]

I think we can broaden this discussion too from the more localized NY Met Opera situation and come to an agreement on the following on a more worlwide basis as a true and accuate assessment of the Opera :

Opera the last 400 years has undergone less transformative changes worldwide in its instrumentation utilized in performance, than DCI Drum Corps has undergone in the last 40 years. I believe most objective, non biased observers would agree with this overall seemingly rational assessment, would you agree ?

Changes in opera have been in content, staging, lighting, costumes, amplification, pretty much everything across the board.

Can you even imagine how weird and amateur original runs of some of the most famous operas might have seemed in comparison to the present? Really, try to imagine an opera with mid-19th century lighting technique. Horrible.

Anyway, instrumentation is often not too different and is what has changed the least in comparison. I mean, not too much different instrumentation with something like

compared to stuff written hundreds of years ago. It is simply how that instrumentation is used.

[BRASSO]

lol......ok

Good. Now we've established on this thread an agreement that things do indeed "change". But that lots of things havn't changed hardly at all, and yet have remained quite viable, productive, profitable, etc nonethless ..... and have for a few centuries as a matter of fact in some cases.

[garfield]

I'm not much of a traditional sports fan and I only follow the Ohio State Buckeyes because I was in the band and, well, you can't hardly live in Columbus and not, really.

Urban Meyer, the new coach has taken an interesting route along the lines of this thread. First, some facts:

- The football Buckeyes have what would be considered in any discussion, a "successful" and growing franchise and, despite having coaches who can't seem to live up to Woody's fame, they pack 110,000 into that massive stadium every, single home weekend of the year

- I don't know his complete history, but Urban Meyer came from Florida but has deep roots in the Ohio HS and Buckeye football machine.

- With the mess left by Tressel, and losing a great many star players this last year, Meyer could have done nearly anything short of changing the school's colors to bring them and their reputation back into the light.

What he chose is a mixture of keeping tradtion on the one hand, and reinventing the program from the ground up.

Meyer, himself on the local radio and I'm sure ESPN, made the announcement this week regarding OSU's game-day traditions, saying that he's so revered for so long the traditions of Ohio State that he couldn't possibly think of changing the game day routine. Some of you may not know these things but, to Buckeye fans, these are the essence of the football experience. (I'm sure other big programs have similar traditions.)

The football team WILL continue to partake in the rally at St. John arena. This is a massive, old basketball arena a mere 150 yards from the main entrance of Buckeye Stadium. In St. John, they hold "The Skull Session", a rousing pep-rally that's actually centered on the marching band, but what has become THE pre-game hype for every home game. It holds something like 13,000 people and, if you're not there two hours before game time, you won't get a seat. The fight song, the seniors, the half-time show are all rousing in the arena with the whole audience clapping along. Towards the end, the football team comes roaring in to the fight song and a cheering crowd. The coach says a few words, the seniors...you get the idea.

When they're done, the fans head over to the stadium but, along the way, form a 150 yard "tunnel" of fans 15 deep and, when they're ready, the band marches through to the stadium, parts, and plays the football team over from St. Johns (Le Regiment) and the team growls and looks all mean - like 200 Hulk Hogens. The crowd goes nuts and they rush into the stadium all at the same time to not miss the kickoff.

When, during the game, a Buckeye player does his job well, he's awarded a Buckeye sticker to place on his helmet.

Before and after the game, the team kneels to one knee to reflect, pray, or receive inspiration and/or thanks.

There was talk that each of these, and more, were going to be victims of Meyer's rebuilding of the program. Meyer put those fears to rest, saying that all these will stay and he's adding one of his own. His new "tradition" is to, at exactly 23 minutes before kickoff, gather the team in front of the student section to do something called "Quick-Cals", team calisthenics that Meyer wants the fans to do as well. One big "team" getting all pumped up for the kickoff (I'll bet they'll like that in December!). Rather "TOC-esque", don't you think?

None of these things affect the score, reflect performance design, or greatly impact the final score. But each of them enhances the fan "experience" of being a Buckeye. Meyer admires them and recognizes the worth of doing things that have been done for years - the tradition.

When asked about the new team performance design, it's turned completely upside down. Now, they're not going to huddle and, instead do "quick-counts". They're going to throw the ball and end the long-standing Buckey tradition of being a running team first and foremost. The game itself is going to look completely different, and I'm sure some hard-core football nuts decry the changes as unworkable, or whatever.

But to the fans, most of them don't care whether they use a "spread" offence or a quick-count, blah, blah, blah, so long as they win and their experience is great.

Grandpa's (dinos) take grandkids, they teach them about "game day". "This is how you do football Saturday with 100,000 other people." Kids grow up, go to school, and bring their kids. "Football Saturday" has been passed from generation to generation because the parents are doing what their parents did, because they know how, because the Traditions remained in place. Even when the team loses, the stands are packed.

You guys see the parallels - you take it from here...

Edited August 31, 2012 by garfield

[BRASSO]

Changes in opera have been in costumes,

Anyway, instrumentation is often not too different and is what has changed the least in comparison.

You're not attempting to make the case that " costuming " has changed more in Opera the last 400 years than the last 40 years of " costuming " in Drum Corps ? Or are you ? And you're not attempting to make the case that the " instrumentation " used in Opera has undergone less changes over the last 40 ( let alone 400 ) years than in the fundamental instrumentation changes made in Drum Corps over the last 40 years ?.... Or are you ?

Edited August 31, 2012 by BRASSO