Stu Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) ... funny hearing lots of stories about other corps issues, but Stu isn't out there tilting their windmills Jeff, Jeff, Jeff,... what selective memory you have; please go back and read my postings in the Revo Erupts thread, in the Teal threads, in the VK threads, in the Forte threads, and you will find out this is not about 'Bush', but about disgust and frustration with any corps which is mismanaged into oblivion. just his rep as the "watchdog" of the activity. And I am fine with that rep, even if it was meant as sarcasm. Edited September 10, 2012 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillygwm Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) Jeff, Jeff, Jeff,... what selective memory you have; please go back and read my postings in the Revo Erupts thread, in the Teal threads, in the VK threads, int the Forte threads, and you will find out this is not about 'Bush', but about my disgust and frustration with any corps which is poorly managed. Geez, I just read an entire 17 page thread. First, this is not meant to be taken as a slam of the Bushwackers, their past or present management, or anyone else. I don't have any firsthand knowledge, just what I've read here. Professionally, I'm a commercial banker. We look for our loans to be paid back, primarily via cash flow from ongoing operations but, if necessary, in a liquidation scenario. It seems the problem isn't mismanagement (primarily, at least,) it's that having a corps comprised of X members generates sufficient cash flow to service the debt. Having fewer members precludes that. It's no different than looking at the financials for a for-profit business and seeing what happens to EBITDA when sales drop. Nobody wants to see any corps go under, but here it becomes murky: Per Mr. Morlot's post, membership has been shrinking both toward the end of his tenure and into the present. Thus far, the market has spoken and, unfortunately, it's stating that Bush is no longer viable. If there were audited financials, a CPA might put a "Going Concern" statement on it. Membership fees dropped from $42,815 in 2006 to $31K in 2008-9, before rebounding to $34K in 2010. 2011 numbers were not online but apparently they were even uglier before rebounding a bit this year. Let's assume the best possible outcome to the immediate issue, for both corps and creditor: the debt is repaid. Then what? Will more members be joining the corps than in the past few years? Or will membership continue to suffer for any number of valid reasons (not the least of which is potential members reading this thread about the corps' long term viability.) What is the plan beyond paying the horns off? In terms of membership, what is the breakeven point in order to meet expenses (and put some cash aside for a "rainy day" fund?) Edited September 10, 2012 by Phillygwm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I can no longer watch this one-person crusade silently. Stu, you articulate your values very well. Why do you only apply them to some people and not others? Ok; after reading postings by Jay Morlot and David Kapp: a) the corps ran smoothly and all finances were managed well for close to 25 years by Jay Morlot who retired on May 1, 2011; this included keeping the payments to David for a 2009 loan up to date. Mr. Morlot was kind enough to post here, and admit that there were staff bills not yet paid when he retired. We have no idea how many such bills there were, how long they went unpaid, or what the amounts were. Why do you give him a pass, while holding Bob Gupta to a higher standard? b) Payments on the loan to David then ceased after a 1/2 payment in Sept 2011 and they never resumed which lead to legal action. And what happened to those staff payments? For all you know, current Bushwacker management may have avoided multiple legal actions by prioritizing those payments over the loan to Mr. Kapp. But it is easier to jump to conclusions based on a few Internet postings that only tell part of the story. c) Within 5 months after the retirement of Jay the corps was placed in a situation in which Jay kept it out of for close to 25 years. Conclusion: Unless there was a huge catastrophe within those 5 months which rippled all the way to today, which I am still open to reading about, the corps was therefore mismanaged after May 1, 2012 until the present where they pleaded for money. Yes, there was a huge catastrophe. The 2011 corps had very low membership turnout. New management took over in May. The corps doubled in size after that, but was still much smaller than normal. The 2012 corps showed more growth, but was still smaller than what Bushwackers were fielding prior to 2011. So here comes Stu, demanding in Donald Trump style that management be fired. I fail to see why you even ask whether there was a catastrophe, though. After Revolution had their story appear here last year, you were the one saying that all corps should have enough money in the bank in advance to cover the entire year's budget, including contingencies for unexpected catastrophes - or they should go inactive. Why should Bob Gupta plead his case to you here, just to get that response? I just hope that the rest of us reading your baseless attacks on the current Bushwacker administration are even more motivated to help them out as a result. If so, justice served. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Grandpa Posted September 10, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted September 10, 2012 Donate or don't. If ever there was a thread that needed to be closed, this is it...... 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle B Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Donate or don't. If ever there was a thread that needed to be closed, this is it...... Cleaned up, yes. Closed, no. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottgordon Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I'm sorry, but when was the last time DCA, or DCA corps paid tribute to DCI age/level corps. Many of the DCA/Alumni corps this year did tributes to DCI shows and corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Jeff, Jeff, Jeff,... what selective memory you have; please go back and read my postings in the Revo Erupts thread, in the Teal threads, in the VK threads, in the Forte threads, and you will find out this is not about 'Bush', but about disgust and frustration with any corps which is mismanaged into oblivion. And I am fine with that rep, even if it was meant as sarcasm. well...kind of sarcastic. Kind of my normal self. And no I wasn't refering to those corps. There are others,and it's not hard to hear the rumblings. I went to a parade yesterday, and without asking was informed of other corps issues 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Geez, I just read an entire 17 page thread. First, this is not meant to be taken as a slam of the Bushwackers, their past or present management, or anyone else. I don't have any firsthand knowledge, just what I've read here. Professionally, I'm a commercial banker. We look for our loans to be paid back, primarily via cash flow from ongoing operations but, if necessary, in a liquidation scenario. It seems the problem isn't mismanagement (primarily, at least,) it's that having a corps comprised of X members generates sufficient cash flow to service the debt. Having fewer members precludes that. It's no different than looking at the financials for a for-profit business and seeing what happens to EBITDA when sales drop. Nobody wants to see any corps go under, but here it becomes murky: Per Mr. Morlot's post, membership has been shrinking both toward the end of his tenure and into the present. Thus far, the market has spoken and, unfortunately, it's stating that Bush is no longer viable. If there were audited financials, a CPA might put a "Going Concern" statement on it. Membership fees dropped from $42,815 in 2006 to $31K in 2008-9, before rebounding to $34K in 2010. 2011 numbers were not online but apparently they were even uglier before rebounding a bit this year. Let's assume the best possible outcome to the immediate issue, for both corps and creditor: the debt is repaid. Then what? Will more members be joining the corps than in the past few years? Or will membership continue to suffer for any number of valid reasons (not the least of which is potential members reading this thread about the corps' long term viability.) What is the plan beyond paying the horns off? In terms of membership, what is the breakeven point in order to meet expenses (and put some cash aside for a "rainy day" fund?) well it did look like Bush had more members this year than last...actually the last 2 seasons, so that is a plus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Geez, I just read an entire 17 page thread. First, this is not meant to be taken as a slam of the Bushwackers, their past or present management, or anyone else. I don't have any firsthand knowledge, just what I've read here. Professionally, I'm a commercial banker. We look for our loans to be paid back, primarily via cash flow from ongoing operations but, if necessary, in a liquidation scenario. It seems the problem isn't mismanagement (primarily, at least,) it's that having a corps comprised of X members generates sufficient cash flow to service the debt. Having fewer members precludes that. That was their operating model under former management. How do you know the current management takes the same approach? Other corps show that there are ways to make a corps of under 65 members viable. There would be no class A if that were not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillygwm Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) That was their operating model under former management. How do you know the current management takes the same approach? Other corps show that there are ways to make a corps of under 65 members viable. There would be no class A if that were not true. There are a few ways a corps can make money. Short of them starting up a for-profit entity to support the corps (Godspeed if they go that route,) most corps are ultimately going to be reliant on dues. Can corps have even 20 members and survive? Sure, as long as they can support their infrastructure and debt service (if any) given whatever the expected income is going to be. Again, I'm not really familiar with this particular group's specifics so I'm just speaking in general terms. If a corps has a balance sheet befitting a 128 member unit, and they can liquidate down to whatever level is necessary to support their new realities, of course it can be done. I certainly wish them well... Edited September 10, 2012 by Phillygwm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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