flammaster Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Do you really want me to say it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) While shows have pushed the envelope artistically, as some would claim happened this year with the Blue Devils, and a while back some have critiqued color guard uniforms as too risqué, I'm not sure I'd say I've ever seen a drum corps show that offended my sensibilities and this is coming from someone whose friends say I'm too tightly wrapped and they're probably correct. I think it would take a lot to actually offend. A tribute to Hitler with goose stepping Arian look alikes dressed as Hitler youth with guards dressed like Nazi storm troopers twirling Nazi flags with drum majors that are dressed like "Uncle Joe" Stalin and Idi Amin could do it. An Al Jolson tribute complete with a minstrel show where everyone is in blackface performing a rousing rendition of "Waiting for the Robert E. Lee" could also raise an eyebrow or two. My guess is that other than the fact they'd probably be lousy shows, we'd never see them for another reason. Judging today is subjective. Even if such shows were technically great, chances are the judge swould have a visceral reaction that would impact the scores, especially GE and visually where there's more leeway to weigh the criteria. Even the shows that are very artistic and are appreciated by a few have a certain appeal and a judge can be objective. This would be more difficult with a show that simply offends just to offend. Of course if we still had ticks, a show could be technically perfect while out and out offensive, but they'd find some way to penalize it and that would be the end of it. Now with a topic that is rather serious, I could not help but think of "The Producers" as a potential show idea when I typed some of my comments. A corps could have great fun with such a show. The overture would be a graet opener. Can you imagine what a guard could so with the scene where the old ladies dance with the walkers? "Spring Time for Hitler in Germany" would be a great ensemble closer. It could work, but as I've admitted in other posts, there's probably a good reason why I attend shows and don't design them! Edited September 28, 2012 by Tim K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 ... A tribute to Hitler with goose stepping Arian look alikes dressed as Hitler youth with guards dressed like Nazi storm troopers twirling Nazi flags with drum majors that are dressed like "Uncle Joe" Stalin and Idi Amin could do it. An Al Jolson tribute complete with a minstrel show where everyone is in blackface performing a rousing rendition of "Waiting for the Robert E. Lee" could also raise an eyebrow or two... These concepts, which are rather historically accurate, would be considered the point which is too far by you; why? I mean we have had posters in this and other threads state that artistic expression of historical events is downright acceptable within marching presentations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 There would be a difference between recreating a historical event, even a World War II event including Hitler, and paying tribute to Hitler. The key word is tribute. My guess is that for most people, paying tribute is an honor and paying tribute to Hitler would be the same as supporting Fascism, believing concentration camps are acceptable, or that perhaps even denying the Holocaust is valid, and using anti-Semitism as the reason the world has its woes is a valid point of view. My guess is that a good number of people would find this troubling at best, and most in that category would find it offensive. Al Jolson did not wear blackface to be racist, and his artistry deserves honor, but doing it in blackface today would generally be considered racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideways Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Good question, but I think designers are aware of community standards. You ask about swastikas. Such a design was used by Mel Brooks to induce groans and laughter in "The Producers." Out of that context, I think the same effect in a show based on "The Producers" would elicit a troubling reaction. I can easily see a zombie apocalypse show going too far due to graphic reasons. And I would bitterly protest a show based on the music of Justin Beiber. A troubling reaction to Springtime for Hitler? Adolf Elizabeth Hitler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Now with a topic that is rather serious, I could not help but think of "The Producers" as a potential show idea when I typed some of my comments. A corps could have great fun with such a show. The overture would be a graet opener. Can you imagine what a guard could so with the scene where the old ladies dance with the walkers? "Spring Time for Hitler in Germany" would be a great ensemble closer. It could work, but as I've admitted in other posts, there's probably a good reason why I attend shows and don't design them! I think it would be tough to stage something like that. I'm sure there would be some number of people who just would not get it, and would just see the Nazi images and freak out. Humor is very tough to put on the field...esp where a lot of it is verbal in nature in the original. For those who would 'get it'...it would be a hoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 There would be a difference between recreating a historical event, even a World War II event including Hitler, and paying tribute to Hitler. The key word is tribute. My guess is that for most people, paying tribute is an honor and paying tribute to Hitler would be the same as supporting Fascism, believing concentration camps are acceptable, or that perhaps even denying the Holocaust is valid, and using anti-Semitism as the reason the world has its woes is a valid point of view. My guess is that a good number of people would find this troubling at best, and most in that category would find it offensive. Al Jolson did not wear blackface to be racist, and his artistry deserves honor, but doing it in blackface today would generally be considered racist. Nevertheless some would say Tribute while others would say Artistic Expression or even allowance for Freedom of Expression; and who would be correct in their assessments? Moreover, what makes the offense some people would have over these concepts any more valid than the offense others may have to artistic expression concerning other controversial historical imagery (ie the hammer and sickle)? Larger number of people offended equals the actual 'validity' of offense? I am offended by the word Bugger; and in the United States I am way in the minority; so my offense has no validity? But please look up the British meaning of that word and you will discover why most people would be offended in the U.S. if they only knew what it meant when someone calls them a Bugger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterA Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) After being around the activity of band and corps for 40 years now, I have probably seen over 5,000 different shows/programs. We have seen all sorts of odd and unusual things, we have seen girls stripping behind banners, the middle finger, butt slapping, and tons of other things as well. I think the only thing I really thought might be inappropriate in corps was Cadets 2002. I know a lot of people may disagree with me, but I will explain why I felt it might not be the best scenario. We had heard early season that the corps was going to do a tribute to the firefighters. And sure enough, come finals night, three young men went to the back of the field to change into their costumes. I remember saying to my wife, oh brother they're going to do it. And sure enough out come 3 firefighters from the backfield. The woman sitting in front of us( a Cadet mom) after the show said they had been planning to do that all season long as a tribute to the victims of 9/11. Now here is where I have a little issue. If this is truly meant as a tribute, why had they not performed this all season long. That would have truly been a tribute. To throw it in only for finals, seems to me to be taking a tragedy, and trying to turn it into a few extra tenths of a point on finals night. Personally, and this is only my opinion, I really felt they kind of crossed the line. It is probably the only drum corps performance in 35 years that I did not personally give a standing ovation too. They did have every right to perform that show, and I am sure probably not many people agree with my point. I am not so appalled that they did it, so much as they tacky way they did it only for finals. It isn't something like the Bottle Dance, or the Chevron, or many other trademark moves done by corps. This was taking a real event, a recent event, that affected the entire country, and trivializing it to try and jump up a placement. I personally would not have censored it, or even suggested to them not to do it. And it wasn't graphically obscene or laced with profanities. I just think it wasn't very well thought out, and certainly did not accomplish a tribute of any sort. And then to add the calling of the fire department to help with the fire engines, definitely proves that whole scenario was more of a point getter, than a true tribute. Edited September 28, 2012 by MisterA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Just because one can does not mean one should. oh. well #### Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 No one needs to see a nude tuba line. Ever. key words...if done well. the only time a tuba line is done well is if they have been frying in the sun all day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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