garfield Posted November 25, 2012 Author Share Posted November 25, 2012 (edited) 990's don't tell you much. All it really tells you is how good their accountant is. So, Dan, there's this question in the 990s, in section Part VI, Section B, Line 11, that asks: "Has the organization provided a copy of this Form 990 to all members of its governing body before filing this form?" Cavaliers checked the "Yes" box, then expanded on the answer in the notes: "After Form 990 is prepared by the independent auditor, it is delivered to the treasurer for review and eventual submission to the organization's governing body". Similar statements are made by every corps whose 990 I've reviewed. Your connotation is that the "accountant" (Cavaliers said "Independent Auditor") somehow fudges, or plays loose, with the numbers in the 990. By extension of the above statement, you suggest that the governing body knowingly allows its auditor to play loose with their numbers. An auditor, as you know, is charged with the responsibility of completing the forms according to IRC regulations. Are you suggesting that each corps' governing body is complicit in ignoring the IRC rules? If the 990's are not accurate as you suggest, I think I'll call the IRS and have them do a little snooping... Instead, Dan, how about you throw a bucket of cold water on someone else's thread. I hear the History thread is completely irrelevant to today's drum corps... Edited November 25, 2012 by garfield 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 I disagree. But hey, you're probably right. So I'll stop now. Well... you can see gross revenues... can see how they categorize it for purposes of fitting within the boxes of their specific tax status. Operating balance sheets, rather than status compliance filings are better indication of what's actually going on. There are also a lot of things that don't make it into the filings as they not compulsory, but add considerable value to the org... even in terms of cash equivalent value (stuff they would have spent money on), but is not reflected in filings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 So, Dan, there's this question in the 990s, in section Part VI, Section B, Line 11, that asks: "Has the organization provided a copy of this Form 990 to all members of its governing body before filing this form?" Cavaliers checked the "Yes" box, then expanded on the answer in the notes: "After Form 990 is prepared by the independent auditor, it is delivered to the treasurer for review and eventual submission to the organization's governing body". Similar statements are made by every corps whose 990 I've reviewed. Your connotation is that the "accountant" (Cavaliers said "Independent Auditor") somehow fudges, or plays loose, with the numbers in the 990. By extension of the above statement, you suggest that the governing body knowingly allows its auditor to play loose with their numbers. An auditor, as you know, is charged with the responsibility of completing the forms according to IRC regulations. Are you suggesting that each corps' governing body is complicit in ignoring the IRC rules? If the 990's are not accurate as you suggest, I think I'll call the IRS and have them do a little snooping... Instead, Dan, how about you throw a bucket of cold water on someone else's thread. I hear the History thread is completely irrelevant to today's drum corps... I'm not saying that anything is inaccurate.... I am just suggesting that they are sorts of Cliff's Notes or a thumbnail sketch of an organization's financial situation, and include only the minimum level of detail is not required for filings. More information always tells more of a story. I do see one trend from these though... drum corps is getting more expensive and less money is being generated from drum corps/marching music activities. More revenue diversity is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted November 25, 2012 Author Share Posted November 25, 2012 Well... you can see gross revenues... can see how they categorize it for purposes of fitting within the boxes of their specific tax status. Operating balance sheets, rather than status compliance filings are better indication of what's actually going on. There are also a lot of things that don't make it into the filings as they not compulsory, but add considerable value to the org... even in terms of cash equivalent value (stuff they would have spent money on), but is not reflected in filings. I'd like for you to give me examples of "in-kind" value that you're speaking of, because I'm confident that there's a line-item to reflect it. I will agree with you that operating statements would specify information that is not identifiable in the 990's and, supposedly, those documents are made available to the public (Part VI, Section C (Disclosure), Line 19). But, I'm not doing an official audit of drum corps here and would you agree that the information provided so far in this thread is more revealing to more people who, unlike yourself, have never studied the finances behind the corps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 I'd like for you to give me examples of "in-kind" value that you're speaking of, because I'm confident that there's a line-item to reflect it. Thousands of volunteer hours, for example. Product endorsements? This is equipment that is often "loaned", but not fully booked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted November 26, 2012 Author Share Posted November 26, 2012 (edited) Thousands of volunteer hours, for example. Product endorsements? This is equipment that is often "loaned", but not fully booked. I'll stipulate that volunteer hours are not accounted for in the 990's, but does anyone really not believe that most corps would go broke if they had to pay for the services they're getting free from volunteers? I'll also stipulate that that category is a wash across the whole activity. I knew you would bring up equipment endorsements, but you're wrong. Those endorsements are reflected in "cost of goods sold" and "Gross sales of inventory, less returns and allowances" (Part VIII, lines 10a and 10b). If the corps received any "benefit" from endorsements, it must be reflected there. An endorsement is nothing more than a discount in return for brand use. That discount must be reflected in Revenue. What else have you got? EDIT: Sorry, left one out in case you claim that equipment is not "inventory". Part VIII, lines 7a and 7b ask for "Gross amount of sales of assets OTHER than inventory", and "Less cost or other basis and sales expenses". Edited November 26, 2012 by garfield 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted November 26, 2012 Author Share Posted November 26, 2012 Moving on... The Cavaliers Revenue Other Revenue Net Gain or loss from sales of assets other than inventory only shows up in 2009, at $42,676 Net Income (loss) from sales of inventory, less returns and allowances: 2009: $107,541 2010: $150,535 (flat from 2009. See note below) 2011: $162,071 (plus $11,536 [7.6%] from 2010) Note: Net gain from sales of assets other than inventory was, apparently, combined with sales of inventory in 2010 and 2011. The calculation of yearly increase or decrease combines the two for 2009. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted November 26, 2012 Author Share Posted November 26, 2012 (edited) The Cavaliers Revenue Other Revenue Net Income (loss) from gaming activities 2009: $46,861 2010: $40,454 2011: $39,945 Miscellaneous Revenue was $28,291 in 2009, $17,966 in 2010, and $52,370 in 2011 That ends the look at Revenue. Next we'll look at expenses. Edited November 26, 2012 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 You're going to choose SF over the fun and excitement of drum corps 990s? Really? :w00t:/>/> I do both at the same time. Then, when you're doing more "digging", it's over to FN while watching football. Just got FN and I'm up to 80. Keep up the great work on this project G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 And look at the profits of YEA! events v. TEP events. I have no data from YEA! shows (if you have attendance and profit data, please post), but I don't recall hearing here that his shows are packing in the fans at higher ticket prices and he's walking away with record profits. Too much data is missing for you to make this claim, IMO. The Jackson show was a complete sellout...I had to buy and SRO/back stands seat when I got there, even with the 2-hour thunderstorm delay. OTOH, the prices did not seem out of line to me. And...the one special higher priced section was, from what I recall, a sellout even before the day of the show. It was a HS field so the capacity was not close to one of the major shows. West Chester was close to a sellout, but not 100%. Again, ticket prices were pretty reasonable to me. Not sure what the attendance was at MetLife, as I was in sunny Mexico that weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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