lindap Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Accountant and auditor have specific roles. Who audits the books for a non-profit is in the bylaws. I'm glad I'm now co-Treasurer to split duties; makes me less liable. New board members question Treasurers. We show them numbers each and every meeting ... they take time to digest and eventually our integrity is respected : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 990's don't tell you much. All it really tells you is how good their accountant is. I disagree. In fact, the post right before yours tells us how much money a top corps gets from DCI revenue sharing. The Cavaliers Revenue Program Service Revenue Membership Dues 2009: $265,758 2010: $283,174 (plus $17,416 [6.5%] from 2009) 2011: $302,853 (plus $19,679 [6.9%] from 2010, plus $37,095 [14%] from 2009) Tour Revenue 2009: $167,266 2010: $164,284 2011: $159,125 (essentially flat across all three years) The "Tour Revenue" numbers contain both appearance fees paid during the season, and revenue sharing paid after the season. You can determine the revenue sharing amounts by subtracting the appearance fees from these totals. Cavaliers competed 26 times in 2009, 32 times in 2010 and 34 times in 2011. Appearance fee is about $2500. Total appearance fees would be: 2009: $65,000 2010: $80,000 2011: $85,000 Subtracting these appearance fees, the revenue sharing payments to the Cavaliers were roughly: 2009: $102,266 2010: $84,284 2011: $74,125 In other words, in the years leading up to the G7 proposal, a top corps was getting more money from post season revenue sharing than from appearance fees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Garfield - I (and based on the topic views, quite a few others) have refrained from posting as it's not my specialty field, but have been avidly reading. Keep it up! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Looking at DCI fees/revenue against total program revenue, basically DCI doesn't really pay for the Cavs tour so much. They're only covering about a third of their program revenue, and about 10% of total revenue? I get that every dollar counts, but I wonder if we blow DCI's money to the corps a little out of proportion? Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Looking at DCI fees/revenue against total program revenue, basically DCI doesn't really pay for the Cavs tour so much. They're only covering about a third of their program revenue, and about 10% of total revenue? Looks more like 15% to me. I get that every dollar counts, but I wonder if we blow DCI's money to the corps a little out of proportion? Or if they blow it out of proportion, when their proposals infer that they cannot survive without a rate increase from DCI for that 10-15% of total revenue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 And look at the profits of YEA! events v. TEP events. I have no data from YEA! shows (if you have attendance and profit data, please post), but I don't recall hearing here that his shows are packing in the fans at higher ticket prices and he's walking away with record profits. Too much data is missing for you to make this claim, IMO. I would imagine, if he was packing them in, he'd be showing more in revenue and profits. The fact that they are usually offering up discounts for those premier seats days before the events run should indicate people aren't buying, at least early Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 I disagree. In fact, the post right before yours tells us how much money a top corps gets from DCI revenue sharing. The "Tour Revenue" numbers contain both appearance fees paid during the season, and revenue sharing paid after the season. You can determine the revenue sharing amounts by subtracting the appearance fees from these totals. Cavaliers competed 26 times in 2009, 32 times in 2010 and 34 times in 2011. Appearance fee is about $2500. Total appearance fees would be: 2009: $65,000 2010: $80,000 2011: $85,000 Subtracting these appearance fees, the revenue sharing payments to the Cavaliers were roughly: 2009: $102,266 2010: $84,284 2011: $74,125 In other words, in the years leading up to the G7 proposal, a top corps was getting more money from post season revenue sharing than from appearance fees. interesting observation,..........this is the thread of the decade! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyRyder_FMM Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Thousands of volunteer hours, for example. Product endorsements? This is equipment that is often "loaned", but not fully booked. Volunteer hours are specifically excluded, and not unique to corps in the activity. I'd wager a lot of money that most every corps would fail without colunteers. So that item alone is not all that telling. "Loaned" equipment is not recognized or depreciated, as it is loaned. Corps are not required to impute rent expense. If equipment is given (I.e., endorsements), the in-kind value should be recognized, but so will the expense for the equipment itself. The IRS regs do permit netting, but gross presentation is encouraged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyRyder_FMM Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 990's don't tell you much. All it really tells you is how good their accountant is. They have their limitations, such as lack of consistency is expense categorization and level of granularity. But they tell plenty if you have a basic understanding of finance or how a corps operates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 (edited) interesting observation,..........this is the thread of the decade! And we're only wrapping up the third year! Edited November 26, 2012 by Ghost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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