BRASSO Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 (edited) We can? I don't think so, actually. I think BDB and Vanguard Cadets would likely stay, as from their end DCI is a good fit. I don't think DCI would kick them out, unless it's just in a fit of pique (and goodness knows that's never happened before, right?), as it's not in DCI's interest to boot two of their more successful competing corps just 'because.' And as Open Class corps, it's not like BDB and VC are exactly draining their coffers for show payouts. If anything, BD and SCV leaving would allow BDB and VC to go World Class and compete with the remaining big corps. Mike we have a precedent in this....Notre Dame. Notre Dame elite football program stays independent because the dopes in the Big East allowed ND to keep their non revenue sports in the Big East. Hows that worked out for the Big East ? Then when the Big East looks to implode, Notre Dame then stays independent in football, but the Athletic Coast Conference ( ACC) allows Notre Dame to come into their league.. but partially... keeping their elite, revenue producing, football program independent and outside the ACC, and makes the same mistake the Big East does,by taking in Notre Dame's non revenue sports teams. Hows that working out for the ACC at the moment as well ? Now... if DCI wants to make the same mistake that both the Big East and the ACC have done... allow BD to go independent with their elite corps, but park their organization's non revenue producing Corps in DCI,... then that'd be a huge mistake too imo. But my guess, the DCI Executive Board of Directors and the DCI membership itself will not permit this partial membership...but who really knows. Edited November 26, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 If the split happens, corps "traditionally below" the G7 have an instant increase in Competitive Inertia since 7 slots have been cleared ahead of them! Boston's chances of winning the DCI Championship that year will increase dramatically. It also means that the G7 will create an entirely new class of champion. Project that over the next 10 years: Madison will likely increase its DCI Camp count. There will be new DCI champs. Corps like Bluecoats and Crown will never be able to claim they've won a DCI Championship, but they might win one of the new titles. The other 5 G7 will have both kinds of titles. How will corps move from DCI to MIM and vice versa? Will corps with large orgs produce both kinds? (BD, SCV, Yea!) I dunno, sounds kind of exciting to me. A moment of sanity in an, otherwise, frenetic thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 (edited) How will corps move from DCI to MIM? By invitation only! Not placement, as before. Each will go before the country club board, lay out their assets, put up the "money", wait for approval to take their place in line. Edited November 26, 2012 by Fred Windish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 (edited) Ya know, this whole attitude of "Having us go away opens up new opportunities for those who remain. After all, with us around, you will never be anything'," attitude is patronizing, insulting. I'm disappointed in Bruckner and garfield. There has got to be a better way to accommodate this development. Look, we're on the outside here. This might not be as nefarious as it obviously looks, but . . . . Edited November 26, 2012 by Fred Windish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 we have a precedent in this....Notre Dame. Notre Dame elite football program stays independent because the dopes in the Big East allowed ND to keep their non revenue sports in the Big East. Hows that worked out for the Big East ? Then when the Big East looks to implode, Notre Dame then stays independent in football, but the Athletic Coast Conference ( ACC) allows Notre Dame to come into their league.. but partially... keeping their elite, revenue producing, football program independent and outside the ACC, and makes the same mistake the Big East does,by taking in Notre Dame's non revenue sports teams. Hows that working out for the ACC at the moment as well ? Now... if DCI wants to make the same mistake that both the Big East and the ACC have done... allow BD to go independent with their elite corps, but park their organization's non revenue producing Corps in DCI,... then that'd be a huge mistake too imo. But my guess, the DCI Executive Board of Directors and the DCI membership itself will not permit this partial membership...but who really knows. Not meaning to turn this into a football thread, but Notre Dame hasn't actually participated in the ACC yet, and the tradeoff is that for parking non-revenue sports, Notre Dame will schedule ACC opponents, bringing the TV sets and gate revenue that it entails. The ACC isn't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. Notre Dame is bringing money to the table. I guess the DCI parallel would be if BD and SCV left their Open Class corps in DCI, and then agreed to perform in exhibition at a DCI regional (or Finals). What would BD/SCV (not MIM, but the corps orgs) get? A place for their lower corps to compete, and one where they've done quite well, thank you. What would DCI get? Well, aside from two high-quality corps that they could choose to promote to WC (if they don't eventually merge divisions)? More tickets sold and videos and mp3's ordered as these corps become the face of BD/SCV within DCI. And if you're feeling karmic, as open corps, they don't even get much of a say in how DCI is run. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 If I were DCI, I'd pull out all associations and revenue streams now. Why fatten them up? I don't mind two circuits but I do mind the way this separation is being done :worthy:/> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Ya know, this whole attitude of "Having us go away opens up new opportunities for those who remain. After all, with us around, you will never be anything'," attitude is patronizing, insulting. I'm disappointed in Bruckner and garfield. There has got to be a better way to accommodate this development. Look, we're on the outside here. This might not be as nefarious as it obviously looks, but . . . . "When you fall into a pile of horse ####, keep digging. Because there's got to be a horse in there somewhere!" - Ronald Reagan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 (edited) How will corps move from DCI to MIM? By invitation only! Not placement, as before. Each will go before the country club board, lay out their assets, put up the "money", wait for approval to take their place in line. I assume that if the G4-7 leave DCI, theyare leaving behind all the videos,tapes,etc...these are the property of DCI. They also will have to address the judges. Will the judges be allowed by DCI to judge outside of DCI ? Why would DCI want to permit that ? Besides, there are lots of younger, experienced, talented judges in DCI that would welcome the increased judging gigs... as for the G4-7, if they leave DCI, how many shows do they do each year, and will they have the same judges at each show ? How long does a 7 Corps circuit with the the same Corps each year last ? 1 year ? 3 years ? 5 ? DCI has been around 40 years. Raise your hand if you think the G4-7 can go more than a year or two ? And just how old is Hoppy and Gibbs these days ? I don't think the G4-7 split at all. But if they did, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. DCI was in existence before these G7 were any good, and DCI will have other Corps come right up the ranks and be every bit as good as they were. Plus, it'll be good to see fresh, new, Corps come up the ranks and compete for a DCI Title. Nothing against the Cadevaliers, but it'll be a breath of fresh air, imo, to see other Corps, besides the same 3 Corps, win 90 % of the DCI titles since the late 70's. If the G4-7 stay, fine. If they leave.. fine. Opportunity fills the vacumn. Life goes on, and DCI might even, in the long run, be better off without these self absorbed, untrustworthy, egomaniacs. Edited November 26, 2012 by BRASSO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Ya know, this whole attitude of "Having us go away opens up new opportunities for those who remain. After all, with us around, you will never be anything'," attitude is patronizing, insulting. I'm disappointed in Bruckner and garfield. There has got to be a better way to accommodate this development. Look, we're on the outside here. This might not be as nefarious as it obviously looks, but . . . . I think you mis-read Bruckner and his theory (which I happen to disagree with). The fact is that the 7 open spots leave the field wide open. I'm certain that the remaining corps step up into them with style and class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 I assume that if the G4-7 leave DCI, theyare leaving behind all the videos,tapes,etc...these are the property of DCI. They also will have to address the judges. Will the judges be allowed by DCI to judge outside of DCI ? Why would DCI want to permit that ? Besides, there are lots of younger, experienced, talented judges in DCI that would welcome the increased judging gigs... as for the G4-7, if they leave DCI, how many shows do they doeach year, and will they have the judges at each show ? How long does a 7 Corps circuit... the same Corps each year last ? 1 year ? 3 years ? 5 ? DCI has been around 40 years. Raise your hand if you think the G4-7 can go more than a year or two ? And just how old is Hoppy and Gibbs these days ? I don't think the G4-7 spit at all. But if they did, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. DCI was in existence before these G7 wereany good, and DCI will have other Corps cfome right up the ranks and be every bit as good as they will. Plus, it'll be good to see fresh, new, Corps come up the ranks and compete for a DCI Title. Nothing against the Cadevaliers, but it'll be a breathof fresh air to see other Corps, besides the same 3 Corps, win 90 % of the DCI titles since the late 70's. If the G4-7 stay, fine. If they leave.. fine. Opportunity fills the vacumn. Life goes on, and DCI might even, in the long run, be better off without these self absorbed, untrustworthy, egomaniacs. "Judges allowed by DCI"? Really, brasso? Do the judges work exclusively for DCI? Does DCI have the ability to prevent a judge from obtaining work? Do they have non-compete clauses in their agreements with DCI? I agree that DCI should put the pressure on the judging community to choose, but I don't think they have the power to prevent them from judging DCI and MIM any more than they have the power to restrict them from judging DCI and USBands or BOA. But I don't know for sure. I agree with the rest of your post, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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