doylejd Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Who says the members in DCA don't march drum corps for the same reasons and don't have as much fun as those in the DCI circuits do?? The DCA circuits DO have fun!!!! They have A LOT of fun. And trying to say that DCI members can focus on the "joy of music" more than the DCA corps do is just completely untrue. And how can the perception be that much different? For one thing, people are people. Whether mature or immature the whole spectrum exists in DCA too! Nevertheless, people march DRUM CORPS (and I emphasize DRUM CORP) whether DCI, DCA, DCE, DCJ, etc. because they enjoy the activity or want to improve on their skills, etc. So in that aspect, I don't think DCA is any much different except for the age requirements and DCA rehearses mostly on the weekends; their schedules are shorter than those in DCI, and members in DCA can march as much as they want. But the drum corps aspect and reasons people march drum corps are generally all the same. You are looking for arguments that do not exist. I never said DCI members enjoy the joy of music more than DCA members. I said that DCI provides an opportunity to focus on the joy of music amongst their peers, something that DCA does not. Young people act different among other young people than they at when there are adults present. Based on my years of teaching I gather that many of them prefer the company of their peers in a situation like drum corps. There are always exceptions of course, but how many times do we see a kid go to DCA for experience, march DCI for a couple of years and return to DCA when he or she ages out? If the experiences were as similar as you are saying they are this would never happen. The person would just march DCA. DCI offers something more, and it isn't just being gone for the entire summer. It is the change in the environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
En929 Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) You are looking for arguments that do not exist. I never said DCI members enjoy the joy of music more than DCA members. I said that DCI provides an opportunity to focus on the joy of music amongst their peers, something that DCA does not. Young people act different among other young people than they at when there are adults present. Based on my years of teaching I gather that many of them prefer the company of their peers in a situation like drum corps. There are always exceptions of course, but how many times do we see a kid go to DCA for experience, march DCI for a couple of years and return to DCA when he or she ages out? If the experiences were as similar as you are saying they are this would never happen. The person would just march DCA. DCI offers something more, and it isn't just being gone for the entire summer. It is the change in the environment. That’s just not true. DCA members “focus on the joy of music amongst their peers” too. Why would the enjoyment amongst friends and all that be any different in DCA? Heck, that’s a reason people join drum corps besides playing the music; honing skills, strives toward excellence, and the enjoyment of the drum corps activity itself. I’ve actually been in one of those groups and to me it honestly wasn’t that much different! The kids didn’t give a darn whether adults were around or not. They did what they did and did what kids do! Everyone was practicing and performing like what all do in drum corps. How many times do we see kids go to DCA to get experience to march DCI? ALL THE TIME!!! When I was in a DCA corps, half the kids in there were marching in the DCA corps just so that they can have enough experience or get the skills they need to march their age-out year in DCI and the corps gave them a venue for that because they didn’t have any other place to get the skills (for example, the DCA corps was closer to home, etc). There were other kids who got into the DCA corps and stayed in! “Why go anywhere else and I can get the same experience and march as much as I want, do what I enjoy and not have put up with that about age out stuff and “why waste talent?” etc.” is what some said! And by the way, some DCA corps DO kick ###. Go see some of their shows!! Edited January 9, 2013 by En929 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doylejd Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 You are looking for arguments that do not exist. I never said DCI members enjoy the joy of music more than DCA members. I said that DCI provides an opportunity to focus on the joy of music amongst their peers, something that DCA does not. Young people act different among other young people than they at when there are adults present. Based on my years of teaching I gather that many of them prefer the company of their peers in a situation like drum corps. There are always exceptions of course, but how many times do we see a kid go to DCA for experience, march DCI for a couple of years and return to DCA when he or she ages out? If the experiences were as similar as you are saying they are this would never happen. The person would just march DCA. DCI offers something more, and it isn't just being gone for the entire summer. It is the change in the environment. That’s just not true. DCA members “focus on the joy of music amongst their peers” too. Why would the enjoyment amongst friends and all that be any different in DCA? Heck, that’s a reason people join drum corps besides playing the music; honing skills, strives toward excellence, and the enjoyment of the drum corps activity itself. I’ve actually been in one of those groups and to me it honestly wasn’t that much different! The kids didn’t give a darn whether adults were around or not. They did what they did and did what kids do! Everyone was practicing and performing like what all do in drum corps. How many times do we see kids go to DCA to get experience to march DCI? ALL THE TIME!!! When I was in a DCA corps, half the kids in there were marching in the DCA corps just so that they can have enough experience or get the skills they need to march their age-out year in DCI and the corps gave them a venue for that because they didn’t have any other place to get the skills (for example, the DCA corps was closer to home, etc). There were other kids who got into the DCA corps and stayed in! “Why go anywhere else and I can get the same experience and march as much as I want, do what I enjoy and not have put up with that about age out stuff and “why waste talent?” etc.” is what some said)! And by the way, some DCA corps DO kick ###. Go see some of their shows!! I am not sure if you are just choosing to read what you want or if you are just reading through my posts without taking the time to comprehend them, but this is the second time you have attacked me for something I have not said, and at one point you actually agree with me. Let me make my points very clear: - There is a difference between a young adult and an adult. They are not peers. They are of different age groups and act differently around members of their same age group than they do around members of a different age group. If you disagree with this, okay, but It is my opinion formed on my own anecdotal evidence. - I know kids go to DCA to get experience to march DCI. I said that in my post - the post that you quoted. What I also said is that obviously there is a difference in the DCI experience from the DCA experience in the eyes of the youth. As for the kids who just marched DCA, I mentioned them too when I said "there are exceptions of course." - I never questioned the ability of a DCA corps to "kick ###." I enjoy many DCA shows each and every year from the comfort of my home as there are no shows within a reasonable distance of me. If you are looking to have an argument, it is very easy to find a thread that Stu has posted in (I jest, I jest), but I would prefer to have a civil discussion about what we can do to fix DCI as opposed to what DCA is already doing. I have proposed my model of change, and if you have a better idea I would very much like to hear it so we can discuss it. I am quite passionate about this activity and wish for it to be around still (in whatever form that might be) when my children reach marching age. I apologize for any misunderstanding that I may have caused. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I am not sure if you are just choosing to read what you want or if you are just reading through my posts without taking the time to comprehend them, but this is the second time you have attacked me for something I have not said, and at one point you actually agree with me. Let me make my points very clear: . . . If you are looking to have an argument, it is very easy to find a thread that Stu has posted in (I jest, I jest), but I would prefer to have a civil discussion about what we can do to fix DCI as opposed to what DCA is already doing. I have proposed my model of change, and if you have a better idea I would very much like to hear it so we can discuss it. I am quite passionate about this activity and wish for it to be around still (in whatever form that might be) when my children reach marching age. I apologize for any misunderstanding that I may have caused. You're right on every point. Apparently En929 is a bit sensitive about DCA vs DCI and is looking to (re-)start that tired old argument. Your point regarding the experience of marching with performers in the same age group is right on target. I think the "do 1 regional and you qualify for finals" is a pretty cool idea. But you skipped one item! The big difference between DCI and WGI: WGI runs everything and it's pay to play. You pay to join, pay to compete, and pay to go to finals. Those costs are containable for an indoor venue -- not sure the idea scales to outdoor/summer time. Maybe it would -- haven't really thought it all through. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doylejd Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 You're right on every point. Apparently En929 is a bit sensitive about DCA vs DCI and is looking to (re-)start that tired old argument. Your point regarding the experience of marching with performers in the same age group is right on target. I think the "do 1 regional and you qualify for finals" is a pretty cool idea. But you skipped one item! The big difference between DCI and WGI: WGI runs everything and it's pay to play. You pay to join, pay to compete, and pay to go to finals. Those costs are containable for an indoor venue -- not sure the idea scales to outdoor/summer time. Maybe it would -- haven't really thought it all through. That is something I hadn't thought of. For a standard one day show, WGI charges roughly $300 for a group to participate. For a regional of twenty groups, that is a cool $6000 in their pockets. If DCI charged the A Class groups for these shows in a similar manner, surely it would ease the burden of hosting said show. In fact, it would give DCI a reason to promote the new class! Now I have no idea of the costs of an outside venue, but it wouldn't seem difficult to try... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 So if you aren't aware, the vast majority of WGI percussion is run in a true volunteer capacity. This goes all the way from the lowest of A Class up to the multi-year World Class champs Music City Mystique. The main thing that makes this possible though is the fact that rehearsals and contests only take place on the weekends and the staff is located close enough to drive out every week. As a director of an independent program over multiple years, I put in about ten to twenty hours into the program during the week and ten to twenty hours on the weekend. I am able to do this because I live within an hour of our rehearsal sites and can hold a full-time job during the week. There is absolutely no way that I could sustain this lifestyle if touring was in the equation. I would propose that if DCI wants to keep the class model that they have based on touring and revenue, they add an additional third class. However, unlike what was expected of Div. III groups, the new, let's call them A Class, groups would only be required to attend one regional show and championships just like the WGI model. Even in my state, which has no drum corps of which to speak, there are five small DCI shows within a five hour radius. I think that doing four or five shows counting champs would be a wonderfully fulfilling experience for kids, keep costs down, and it is very much in line with what we do all winter. EDIT - I understand this provides no solution for the big dogs, let them figure out what to do. What this does do though is grow the activity following the footsteps of a proven model. This is a great point, and underscores just how different WGI is from DCI. With the plethora of WGI units, it is MUCH easier to do local shows (if you're, say, Rhythm X you can compete a full season and not have to drive more than about 90 minutes to every local show, WGI Regionals, and Championships), there are more local shows PLUS local circuits, and as you mention there is minimal travel. I've been thinking for years that drum corps might come full circle and potentially move to a more DCA model. Unfortunately, that doesn't work super well for those not in the mid-west or east. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
En929 Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) This is a great point, and underscores just how different WGI is from DCI. With the plethora of WGI units, it is MUCH easier to do local shows (if you're, say, Rhythm X you can compete a full season and not have to drive more than about 90 minutes to every local show, WGI Regionals, and Championships), there are more local shows PLUS local circuits, and as you mention there is minimal travel. I've been thinking for years that drum corps might come full circle and potentially move to a more DCA model. Unfortunately, that doesn't work super well for those not in the mid-west or east. Yes, based on the things I’ve been reading in this thread, I think drum corps itself needs to hit the reset button and go back to the time in which many more volunteers were used, to where many more things were done and-or gotten locally (local talent, etc), and to where it didn’t have to cost millions to run a drum corps; they need to follow the above models of WGI or DCA model or do something. I never will be convinced that it HAS TO cost millions to run a drum corps. When hearing that, something just didn’t add up other than what others posted above about them having to have different uniforms every year, having to have huge semis AND buses, or not having students bring their own instruments And lunches or enough money for those things, cutting touring and having entourage staff, etc). Drums, horns and students should be the main focus of what’s needed in a drum corps. Everything else should probably be left out or should be much less of them or borrowed. Heck, give me a million dollars to run a drum corps. We’d run it with minimal amount of cost; budgeting it and the rest will go straight into my pockets! Edited January 10, 2013 by En929 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRacer Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Impulse D&BC has been round now for 15 years (and won Div III in 2006) and is proof longevity and volunteerism can work together. But, you won't get a top 12 corps and they are okay with that; their focus is on being a community activity-- remember those? I'm involved in drag racing, and the common joke is the "2 out of 3" rule. The ideal car would be Cheap Fast Reliable ....but in the end you can only pick two. Applied to World Class and you get: Longevity Top 12 Finalist Volunteer - low to no staff budget ....pick two. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) I mentioned them too when I said "there are exceptions of course." At least you added 'of course'.... :tongue:/> I know it's a different era but some of the youngin's in my day wanted to do something different in music without having to do the tour mode. Or wanted/needed to work over the Summer to make money for either college or (in a few cases) help the family out finanically. As for being with the "peers" most hung out with people their own age but a bunch did spend a lot of time with the over 21 set while on "corps time". For some it was a kick to hang with the "grown ups". For some of us it was a start to the real world where we knew not everyone around us would have the same background.... probably the best thing in doing Sr corps for my later life and careers , IOW working with and being around people who are "different". Guess I should add... did Senior corps from age 16-22... not an age out but starting the J.O.B. Edited January 9, 2013 by JimF-LowBari 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcifanforlife Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Everyone is assuming that the Glassmen will be able to restructure their debts and field a corps in 2014. I don't see it happening. Where will the money come from? A non touring drum corps has no revenue coming in. What fund raisers are available? People are now saying that there are two non profits requesting funds to support the Glassmen. As a fan which one should I donate to and how is the money going to be used? Will the equipment manufactuers (Brass and Percusion) let the Glassmen keep their instruments sit idle for a year? The Glassmen Board of Directors need to announce a restructuring plan soon otherwise everything falls apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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