mingusmonk Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) The concept might be right, but it would take a lot longer than 1 year. With the average fan (i.e. not dcp'ers) there is too much brand equity and name recognition for most of the G7- Madison may be the Non G7 that carries some of that equity. It would take a lot longer for the non-G7s to have a same attraction as G7, even if the quality were comparable because most average fans have heard of BD and associate them with "the best". It would take the average fan (again, not us) a while to have the same perception of a non G7 corps. First, I disagree about the impact of a split on the average fan. Again, I am looking at this from the perspective of a complete split. Not the current situation of G7 corps as DCI members occasionally running their own super-shows, or some variation there-of. Should a complete split occur, they will be separate entities. Even the average fan will be well aware that they are all of a sudden having to deal with MiM and DCI in an unrelated fashion. Different places to find scores. Different places to find out about show sites and schedules. Different places to buy tickets. Different sources for multimedia content. They will wonder why and learn, at least a little, about the split. DCI has been just DCI long enough, even with casual fans, that this change would cause trepidation and questions all around. Fans would have to learn something about the split. Keep in mind that DCI also has significant brand equity as THE SOURCE for junior corps. All of the items listed above, people go to DCI to get it. No question. They've been doing it for decades. If there is any kind of confidence in their programming, I feel that most people will give the above line-up a shot in year one. And DCI and their corps would HAVE to payoff in year one. Because that equity wont last long. So, I guess I feel like year one has potential for good turnout, but I also agree that it would be wrong to not view it as a multi-year process. Otherwise, what's the point? Oh, and edit to add: ... to hell with a split! Let's NOT have a split, OK? :thumbdown:/> Edited January 11, 2013 by mingusmonk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Not to be too much of a downer, but can anyone honestly tell me that they believe that there would be just as many butts in seats for in a show with the following lineup, as there would be in a MIM show?: Colts Troopers Oregon Crusaders Pioneer Spirit of Atlanta Pacific Crest Crossmen Not quite in the spirit of why DCI was founded...to represent all member corps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 So, as you leave your seat in protest prior to a G7 peformance, you might want to remember that A) The director may not care if you stick around, and B) you're making a comment about the members of said corps at the same time. So... if I understand this correctly, in your opinion, the Corps Directors of the G7 bear no responsibility to this situation with their MM's in their Corps ?.... just the fans in the stands bear this reponsibility to the MM's in the G7 Corps Directors Corps ? Do I understand this correctly ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baja Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Not to be too much of a downer, but can anyone honestly tell me that they believe that there would be just as many butts in seats for in a show with the following lineup, as there would be in a MIM show?: Colts Troopers Oregon Crusaders Pioneer Spirit of Atlanta Pacific Crest Crossmen There are so few shows today, that if you want to see drum corps that is within a reasonable drive, you take what you can get. But I also believe that these would be programs that would be more entertaining to me anyway. Edited January 11, 2013 by baja 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Correct. Warren and Jones couldn't justify why the corps put in all the effort and the VFW kept all the money, except for the pittance that was paid out to the corps on a rapidly descending scale. At one time, first place won just a few hundred dollars. The lower placing corps in Finals got enough to barely pay for gas to get from their hotels to the contest site. It was not just revenue streams however.. The Corps that competed in the VFW and American Legion National Championships, ( Prelims & Finals ) were competing under different scoring sheets. This required different game planning for each competition. Jones, Warren, et al wanted judging standardization where the judging sheets would be uniform and in which the Corps themselves would write new judging sheets upon which they would be judged in future competitions. As mentioned earlier, not a single founder of DCI was in favor of killing off any Drum Corps. This in entirely unlike the very small group in the G7 that called for the elimination of all the corps in the Open Class because ( their quote in their powerpoint presentation ) " these Corps perform no real service ". This G7 is unprecedented in the history of Drum Corps and should be repudiated by all decent people that understand what the Mission Statement is of DCI, and a Mission Statement that has been unaltered and has served DCI since its inception. This Mission Statement is something that member Corps volunteered years ago to subscribe too. Years ago when some of them were not placing in the top 25 of DCI, let alone the top 8. If they do not suscribe any longer to the Mission of DCI then it seems to me thsat they have a responsibility now to leave DCI and let those that still believe in its 40 year mission to the YOUTH that it serves, ...not any its self absorbed adults,... to continue on with that mission. Edited January 11, 2013 by BRASSO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Not to be too much of a downer, but can anyone honestly tell me that they believe that there would be just as many butts in seats for in a show with the following lineup, as there would be in a MIM show?: Colts Troopers Oregon Crusaders Pioneer Spirit of Atlanta Pacific Crest Crossmen I think DCI would do just fine. I think that most of the fans would see the "sideshow attraction/high-school-bando" draw that the MIM shows would produce and then start attending DCI shows (again). I'm wondering (cause I was 14 at the time) what Star maybe thought in 1993/1994. I wonder if they thought that the Brass Theatre experiment was the future, and that they would draw tons of DCI fans to their shows. My thought is that initially, they likely did. And Blast! had a great run. However, check both DCI.org and blasttheshow.com and notice which of the two currently has tour dates scheduled. I think that by general audience reaction from just the last season or two comparing the champions vs... say, the Madison Scouts (who performed for far fewer fans), we can see where the true allegiance likely lies. Would I go to a MIM show? Probably, if it were in my area and it weren't too expensive. But the whole thing just has this circus feel to it - from the timing to the judging to the organization of it all. Not sure I would tell friends "I'm going to a Drum Corps show." Bottom line, when I pay for tickets to a DCI show, I'm essentially supporting not only the corps, but also the ideals and values that I believe DCI represents - which is a performance art for youth musicians of today, and an activity that taught me so much as a member myself. I will NEVER EVER believe that the MIM represents those things, for a multitude of reasons, but mainly because of the infamous PowerPoint and the email copied at the top of this thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Colts Troopers Oregon Crusaders Pioneer Spirit of Atlanta Pacific Crest Crossmen Also, just from this short list here, I can count 7 shows that I watched last season during Finals week and enjoyed more than watching the 2012 DCI champion's show. Edited January 11, 2013 by Lead 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Not to be too much of a downer, but can anyone honestly tell me that they believe that there would be just as many butts in seats for in a show with the following lineup, as there would be in a MIM show?: Colts Troopers Oregon Crusaders Pioneer Spirit of Atlanta Pacific Crest Crossmen No, Sam, I can't say that there would be just as many BITS to see this lineup as a MIM show and, of course, neither can the 7 say either. They only believe it but, apparently, not with enough conviction to head off and attempt to find out. But, looked at in the opposite - and this is only anecdotal, of course - there is no empirical evidence to prove that having two of the top-four of the 7 at our show (and, in one year, the eventual gold medalist) put any more BITS than in the years our lineup started with number 6. None. And we have 8 years worth of data to back that up. It's been more than a little surprising to us, too. But we've found we have better attendance when a new corps does our show, someone that's not been here before (or much). We have been able to adjust ticket prices based on the lineup, but only in a minimal way such as a $1 per ticket or so. You may have a bias that is coloring your opinion - which is fine - but I don't think your connotation about attendance reflects the "fly-over" country. Of course, my bias may be that all shows are like ours, which is clearly not the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Possible realistic outcome 3 - DCI give in and the G7 get the 7-5 voting structure on the board. Jethro Tull will make it into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame before you'll see this happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 So... if DCI doesn't respond by Monday 1/14 as demanded, then what? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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