Slingerland Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) Cixy, the tour fees for some of the corps lower than 18th are still comparable to what they are in the top 12. Without citing examples (because I don't want to be accused on 'picking on' anyone), you'll see that it costs as much to the student to march some of the corps who will finish 20th or lower as it will some of those at the top. The downside of that is that the proximity of costs from <20th and >8th, and the disparity of opportunity for competitive placement in those same groups make it less attractive to march a lower-ranked corps than it could be. Everyone here seems to think that it's the Blue Devils or Crown's or Santa Clara's responsibility to underwrite those lower-ranked corps operations (by accepting much less than market value for their appearances), but no one wants to take the responsibility themselves for making sure that those smaller, more regionalized corps can offer competitive touring fees to potential members. If the cost of doing Corps X was just $1,200 a summer, because Corps X had an additional $100,000 in outside scholarship money pledged to them every summer to help subsidize those expenses, would it be make marching Pioneer more attractive to kids who want to march, but can't justify the $2300+ now? Probably. Would it increase the likelihood that some of those corps would increase their talent levels, because more kids who had chops, but not that much dough, might take advantage of that opportunity? Potential members look at who's placing where when they consider who to audition for. I'm not sure why anyone would think otherwise. Not saying it's the only consideration, or even the primary consideration, but it is a consideration, particularly for those who might only have one or two years of eligibility. Edited March 12, 2013 by Slingerland 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 .................. Everyone here seems to think that it's the Blue Devils or Crown's or Santa Clara's responsibility to underwrite those lower-ranked corps operations ..................... understood,............but many would also say that the greedy 7 want to change things to dismantle Friends of DCI, start their own set of shows, etc. to self serve their set of interests, that are aside from the organization that got them to where they are to begin with,............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 Cixy, the tour fees for some of the corps lower than 18th are still comparable to what they are in the top 12. Without citing examples (because I don't want to be accused on 'picking on' anyone), you'll see that it costs as much to the student to march some of the corps who will finish 20th or lower as it will some of those at the top. You must be drawing that presumption based on quoted dues on corps websites. How could you possibly know how much each student actually pays to march each of these corps? The downside of that is that the proximity of costs from <20th and >8th, and the disparity of opportunity for competitive placement in those same groups make it less attractive to march a lower-ranked corps than it could be. I am on the verge of green plussing your post just for this clever turn of phrase. Everyone here seems to think that it's the Blue Devils or Crown's or Santa Clara's responsibility to underwrite those lower-ranked corps operations (by accepting much less than market value for their appearances), but no one wants to take the responsibility themselves for making sure that those smaller, more regionalized corps can offer competitive touring fees to potential members. So much for that green plus. Oh, the phrases are still clever, but the message is wandering off into the weeds again. a. There is no established "market value" for a corps appearance. These corps make their appearances in DCI contests, not an open market. If there was a "market value" for a corps appearance that was much higher, as you suggest, top DCI corps would already be making these appearances just for the additional revenue. b. I could just as easily contend that since the prevailing DCI system pays G7 corps far more than other WC corps, that the rest of world class is "underwriting" the G7. c. Again with the stereotypes? Those corps are not categorically "smaller" or "more regionalized". If the cost of doing Corps X was just $1,200 a summer, because Corps X had an additional $100,000 in outside scholarship money pledged to them every summer to help subsidize those expenses, would it be make marching Pioneer more attractive to kids who want to march, but can't justify the $2300+ now? Probably.Would it increase the likelihood that some of those corps would increase their talent levels, because more kids who had chops, but not that much dough, might take advantage of that opportunity? Maybe. But why hold a gun to the head of the 19th place corps director and force him to lower dues? If the 19th place corps can fill their ranks with members of appropriate ability while still charging the same dues as the top corps, more power to them. In reality, when corps need the additional talent badly enough, they do discount their dues. You might not be aware of it if you only look at the listed dues on websites. But like many purchases of this size, not everyone pays full list price. Potential members look at who's placing where when they consider who to audition for. I'm not sure why anyone would think otherwise. Not saying it's the only consideration, or even the primary consideration, but it is a consideration, particularly for those who might only have one or two years of eligibility. I know it is. More so today, when it is more predictable. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daave Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 a. There is no established "market value" for a corps appearance. These corps make their appearances in DCI contests, not an open market. If there was a "market value" for a corps appearance that was much higher, as you suggest, top DCI corps would already be making these appearances just for the additional revenue. b. I could just as easily contend that since the prevailing DCI system pays G7 corps far more than other WC corps, that the rest of world class is "underwriting" the G7. c. Again with the stereotypes? Those corps are not categorically "smaller" or "more regionalized". It's my understanding from those I have spoken to that over 60% of what is paid out, is paid out to the top 7 corps. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Here's my one big issue...that placement trumps all. Not everyone can be a winner, or top 5. Hell, 2 of the 7 have never won in World Class. And I guarantee you, if they go off on their own, no corps will win every year. Eventually someone will be considered baggage. Then 7 becomes 6...and so on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 You must be drawing that presumption based on quoted dues on corps websites. How could you possibly know how much each student actually pays to march each of these corps? Well, if they don't pay what is quoted on the corps website, we end up with a Teal Sound or Revolution situation, where they can't financially get through tour because of lack of funds. And does anyone want that to happen again? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Here's my one big issue...that placement trumps all. Not everyone can be a winner, or top 5. Hell, 2 of the 7 have never won in World Class. And I guarantee you, if they go off on their own, no corps will win every year. Eventually someone will be considered baggage. Then 7 becomes 6...and so on. At least with 7, everyone has a pretty good chance of winning. In a 7 corps bracket, everyone has a 14.29% chance of winning in any given year. With the 42 corps that participated in prelims this last year, that gives every corps a 2.39% chance of winning. Statistics can be fun, can't they? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Well, if they don't pay what is quoted on the corps website, we end up with a Teal Sound or Revolution situation, where they can't financially get through tour because of lack of funds. And does anyone want that to happen again? Ya think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 At least with 7, everyone has a pretty good chance of winning. In a 7 corps bracket, everyone has a 14.29% chance of winning in any given year. With the 42 corps that participated in prelims this last year, that gives every corps a 2.39% chance of winning. Statistics can be fun, can't they? considreing the 7 has every DCi title not belonging to Madison, Anaheim or Star, stats are worthless 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Ya think? Yes. But someone whom I was responding to said that we don't know how much the kids are actually paying, I think my response was pretty accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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