Pete Freedman Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Actually, I'm not stating that there is a lack of creativity ( or diversity ) in the design of uniforms worn by Corps proper. One of the question you replied above revolved around " diversity " in the look of Corps, compared with the 70's. I merely responded that in my observation there was quite a bit of diversity... perhaps more so.... in the earlier Corps " look " than perhaps today. We did have in the 70's, 80's, Corps that wore Kilts. We had the military look of Corps like Freelancers, Cadets, as well as Corps with bellbottom pants and sombreros ( Muchachos ), Corps with the urban street look of the Bridgemen, the look of Aussies ( 27th ), the look of Cowboys and Cowgirls ( Troopers ), Prussian shakos ( Belleville Black Knights ), Corps that were 80-90% African- American in membership ( CCMC Warriors ), Corps with red sneakers and Hawaiian Shirts ( Velvet Knights ), and dozens of shakos of all manner that provided a unique and diverse " look " to the various Corps, Corps where everyone in the Corps wore skirts, Corps where everyone in the Corps wore pants, and other Corps in Hot Pants, and so on and so forth. I do see Corps today that " look " different, but this diverse " look " among Corps of today, is certainly no more diverse in " look " that we had in the eras of the 70's, 80's. There was LOTS of diversity in Corps in the 70's and the 80's, and that is my central reply when it appears you believe that today's Corps offer MORE diversity than in the 70's, 80's. Even the marchers themselves in the 70's, 80's had a wide range of diversity among their Corps ranks, as well among the Corps that they competed with on the field of competition. Ok, now I get it. This is a great point. So while the modern uniforms ("costumes") are individually very creative and offer a diverse look on the field, they are not based on anything "real", (i.e. a cultural look that exists outside the activity.) It's like the fine art museum vs. the modern art museum (a great example of this contrast is the museums at the Smithsonian in Washington.) Neither is more or less diverse really, but the fine art is more rooted in recognizable cultures outside of the art world, where the modern art is more of an internal conversation within the art world. This makes it bland to some when considered all together. So even the classic Blue Devils uniform evoked a tuxedo, and the class that goes along with that. It worked well. Now it's just another bunch of pretty shapes. This change may have come about along with the proliferation of themes in drum corps. It's harder to convey a distinct show theme when you have a dramatic look having nothing to do with that theme. But which is more or less entertaining, that's tougher... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 This change may have come about along with the proliferation of themes in drum corps. It's harder to convey a distinct show theme when you have a dramatic look having nothing to do with that theme. But which is more or less entertaining, that's tougher... Made me think of a visit to London a few years ago. We went to see the changing of the guard at Buckingham Palace. A military brass band marched down the drive (I love those bands), and I was expecting to hear some Vaughan Williams or maybe the March from the Holst Suite in Eb or something...they were playing "Yellow Submarine". It sounded great, but it was sort of incongruous to my eyes. It was my expectations that were 'off', but it kind of goes along with the above discussion, or at least the discussion made me flash back to that event (a good thing!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 (edited) So while the modern uniforms ("costumes") are individually very creative and offer a diverse look on the field, they are not based on anything "real", I reread my comments above to see how anyone can conclude from my remarks that I said that today's uniforms are not based " on anything real ". I couldn't find it, so I'm perplexed where you came up with this. As a matter of fact there is nothing in my remarks alluding to anything superficial about the uniforms. I gave my preference for better color coordination, but othrer than that, I really have no idea what you are talking about now re. today's uniforms. All performamces in the Performing Arts require the sauspension of reality and the use of one's imagination. There is the expectation that the presentation... whether musically or visually... will be an artist's exaggerated representation of " the real ". No presentation on Broadway, on stage, theatre, Concert stage, Drum Corps field, Opera, takes the literal. This is understood by the audience attendee. Edited April 23, 2013 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 All performamces in the Performing Arts require the sauspension of reality and the use of one's imagination. There is the expectation that the presentation... whether musically or visually... will be an artist's exaggerated representation of " the real ". No presentation on Broadway, on stage, theatre, Concert stage, Drum Corps field, Opera, takes the literal. This is understood by the audience attendee. But...in a medium that is both music and visual, e.g. a Broadway show, there is an attempt to create a visual program, through sets and costuming, that is used to convey the intention of the designers of the production. A concert setting is only to listen to the music, hence there is no attempt to tie the visual to the music. In terms of this discussion, a drum corps uniform is akin to the concert attire of an orcehstra (music only), but the production on the field is akin to a Broadway show (music and visual). We who are already fans are perfectly willing to suspend that reality, but IF the desire is to expand this activity beyond those of us already "in the know", that is where the discussion about changing the attire comes in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsksun4 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 We who are already fans are perfectly willing to suspend that reality, but IF the desire is to expand this activity beyond those of us already "in the know", that is where the discussion about changing the attire comes in. Haven't read the entire thread, so I don't know if it's been mentioned but on the DCA side, I believe the Sunrisers dressed in costume for their 2011 Les Mis show and brought favorable attention from the judges. Might we see this on the DCI side any time soon, if it hasn't already been done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 But...in a medium that is both music and visual, e.g. a Broadway show, there is an attempt to create a visual program, through sets and costuming, that is used to convey the intention of the designers of the production. A concert setting is only to listen to the music, hence there is no attempt to tie the visual to the music. In terms of this discussion, a drum corps uniform is akin to the concert attire of an orcehstra (music only), but the production on the field is akin to a Broadway show (music and visual). We who are already fans are perfectly willing to suspend that reality, but IF the desire is to expand this activity beyond those of us already "in the know", that is where the discussion about changing the attire comes in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normy diploome Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Haven't read the entire thread, so I don't know if it's been mentioned but on the DCA side, I believe the Sunrisers dressed in costume for their 2011 Les Mis show and brought favorable attention from the judges. Might we see this on the DCI side any time soon, if it hasn't already been done? I react to how all these wannabe arm chair designers with their theoretical solutions forget one powerful component, $$$$$$. Different costumes for each member for each season greatly effects the budget but doesn't necessarily bring in a successful affect when trying to effect both an improvement in General effect scores and land more seats in the stadium chairs/bleachers. Novelties and tricks like these have been tried by others before in our activity and been discarded because the results and cost-benefit-analysis didn't measure up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 (edited) There is little problem with the uniform proper among the uninitiated that I'm aware of . There could be a problem with the initiated non fan with the guard attire however . I have heard criticisms among my peers that are non fans, but not so much the uniform of the Corps proper. Edited April 23, 2013 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I reread my comments above to see how anyone can conclude from my remarks that I said that today's uniforms are not based " on anything real ". I couldn't find it, so I'm perplexed where you came up with this. ... Maybe I misunderstood: I merely responded that in my observation there was quite a bit of diversity... perhaps more so.... in the earlier Corps " look " than perhaps today. We did have in the 70's, 80's, Corps that wore Kilts. We had the military look of Corps like Freelancers, Cadets, as well as Corps with bellbottom pants and sombreros ( Muchachos ), Corps with the urban street look of the Bridgemen, the look of Aussies ( 27th ), the look of Cowboys and Cowgirls ( Troopers ), Prussian shakos ( Belleville Black Knights ), Corps that were 80-90% African- American in membership ( CCMC Warriors ), Corps with red sneakers and Hawaiian Shirts ( Velvet Knights ) See how all (almost) those things are essentially cut-and-pasted from various cultures outside of drum corps? Generally with little modification except to make it workable as a uniform. Today's uniforms are either more generic military, or are generally stylized versions of their older look or just a pretty pattern. This was the point I thought you were making! Also, I didn't say they were superficial, quite the reverse. I quite like them generally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsksun4 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 (edited) I react to how all these wannabe arm chair designers with their theoretical solutions forget one powerful component, $$$$$$. Different costumes for each member for each season greatly effects the budget but doesn't necessarily bring in a successful affect when trying to effect both an improvement in General effect scores and land more seats in the stadium chairs/bleachers. Novelties and tricks like these have been tried by others before in our activity and been discarded because the results and cost-benefit-analysis didn't measure up. I understand the $$$$$$ for entire corps every year thing, but in the case of Sun, I think money wasn't there for new uniforms so the members and staff got creative and did what they could and they did get positive feedback from judges, or so I read on their site. Cost is certainly a great issue on a grand scale with DCI corps fielding 120+ members so I agree and I'm not suggesting this is the way to go. Just throwing thought and wonder if the top DCI corps with backing would lean in this direction in the future. Edited April 23, 2013 by gsksun4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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