What will help DCI become more entertaining

[Pete Freedman]

No, you're right. What dci needs is more prancing and dancing. The kind that makes you embarrassed to watch it. Let alone take a newbie to view the spectacle.

That, plus complete lack of melody line, are just what the doctor ordered.

No, it makes you embarrassed. I love it.

(I didn't red neg you, btw!) As to introducing new people, I think it depends on the kind of people you know. I know people who take dance classes - dance schools are all over - but I don't know any young people who would want to spend thousands of dollars to spin a rifle in a precise way. And then hold their arm up at a 45 degree angle while spinning it and nodding at the same time. Not one. (Rereading this I realize you're probably not going back that far. So what's your ideal year for top DCI color guards?)

And there were plenty of embarrassingly bad guards in the late 70s at least, I can attest to that. I saw many of them at the American Heritage winter contests where we did standstills. (guard portion followed by standstill ensemble portion). Most of the units were embarrassingly bad. Nobody went for the entertainment. They went to be supportive. It was still awesome because we were all students learning, not because we were good. And nobody had any illusions about that. (The top units would get some genuine cheers, but I only heard that from the wings :-) And the best (DCI) guards were impressive, but nowhere near as impressive as today, IMO.

[SFZFAN]

No, you're right. What dci needs is more prancing and dancing. The kind that makes you embarrassed to watch it. Let alone take a newbie to view the spectacle.

That, plus complete lack of melody line, are just what the doctor ordered.

Once again - I am in complete agreement with you.

[Pete Freedman]

While I will not attempt to defend the comments of the poster you responded too, it is my observation that there was considerable " diversity " of music played in " the 70's ", and from that standpoint anyway I see no less " diversity " of music selected and played in the era of the 70's to that of the music chosen to be played today. I see much commonality among the era's in this respect, than dissimilarities.

Too much here to respond to everything. But you may be right that the original music was more emotionally diverse than I am giving it credit for. Maybe my point should be revised to the way it was played. The need for a fairly constant loud percussion contribution along with louder arrangements in general made for a lot less subtlety.

The Music of Spanish/ Mexican influences was never constrained to the " machismo " emotional tugs in the 70's, any more than it is today, imo. So I'd have to respectfully disagree with you that it was constrained to the " machismo " when it was a Spanish inspired musical composition. Corps played Ravel's Spanish inspired " Bolero " both in the 70's as well a recently. This is not a " machismo " piece at all.

Well... it is traditionally considered the most seductive/sensuous piece every written (prior to modern pop songs). The idea was the steady beat somehow got women in the mood. I suspect this was mostly theory. If the melody isn't macho, it's reputation certainly was. And Madison playing it was no accident.

Even Mangione's seemingly much maligned " Children of Sanchez " is not geared to Spanish male " machismo ".

Yep, that's an exception. Of course, it's really jazz. Mangione was not Spanish.

I can easily think of 2 dozen examples of Corps in the 70's playing " Spanish- Mexican " musical commpositions that were not " male machismo" testesterone inspired compositions.

My point is about the essential nature of drum corps then, not whether there were exceptions. I'm sure I was broad brushed in my comments, but my only point is that drum corps was, to paraphrase someone in an earlier post, about toughness and coolness, not as much about expressiveness.

Corps of the 70's also had Corps that offered " comedic relief " as its emotional tug appeal. Until Jersey Surf last year, ( and perhaps Cadets show with " Geoffrey") the activity was almost totally devoid of this comedic relief emotional appeal and tug in a show to counter balance the more serious approaches that all other Corps were conveying for a couple of decades.

It seemed there was room for one comic drum corps. Bridgemen, Velvet Knights, now Jersey Surf.

I do agree with you that Corps DO tend to gravitate toward the music compositions of Western Civ. inspired classical composers from hundreds of years ago, rather than the breadth of genres from other musical influences from around the world, both modern and yesteryear..... I also think its fair to say that the activity's uniforms prior to the the 90's for example were far more diverse than today's uniforms, particularly within the Corps proper among the Corps.

More? There was a greater diversity of military looks; that's for sure. So do you think there's a lack of creativity in the design staff of the major uniform makers? Come to think of it, most of the new uniforms today might have been designed by the same handful of people at the "sponsor" uniform companies. I don't know.

Great points.

[garfield]

No, you're right. What dci needs is more prancing and dancing. The kind that makes you embarrassed to watch it. Let alone take a newbie to view the spectacle.

That, plus complete lack of melody line, are just what the doctor ordered.

Couldn't have said it better.

[BRASSO]

And the best (DCI) guards were impressive, but nowhere near as impressive as today, IMO.

This is of course, in the realm of personal preference. What is " impressive " is what makes an " impression " on you. And what makes an " impression " on you , may or may not make an " impression " on others. That said, you did finish the sentence with " in my opinion", and that is most appropriate here.

This thread is about " what will help DCI become more entertaining ". I'm not sure anyone can effectively answer this, as what is " entertaining " is certainly in the realm of personal preference as well.

I do think that we can all agree here that we'd love to see bigger audiences. I don't know of anyone that wants to perform in front of smaller audiences if the choice is between a smaller audience or a larger audience. There is no denying that DCI Finals audiences in the 70's and early 80's were larger than they are the last decade. Everyone wants to see larger audiences, both live and observable via tape delay. As such, perhaps this thread title should have phrased by the OP in that fashion,( ie how do we attract bigger audiences ? ) instead of the phraseology utilized of " become more entertaining ? ".

Edited April 23, 2013 by BRASSO

[BRASSO]

More? There was a greater diversity of military looks; that's for sure. So do you think there's a lack of creativity in the design staff of the major uniform makers? Come to think of it, most of the new uniforms today might have been designed by the same handful of people at the "sponsor" uniform companies. I don't know.

Great points.

Actually, I'm not stating that there is a lack of creativity ( or diversity ) in the design of uniforms worn by Corps proper. One of the question you replied above revolved around " diversity " in the look of Corps, compared with the 70's. I merely responded that in my observation there was quite a bit of diversity... perhaps more so.... in the earlier Corps " look " than perhaps today. We did have in the 70's, 80's, Corps that wore Kilts. We had the military look of Corps like Freelancers, Cadets, as well as Corps with bellbottom pants and sombreros ( Muchachos ), Corps with the urban street look of the Bridgemen, the look of Aussies ( 27th ), the look of Cowboys and Cowgirls ( Troopers ), Prussian shakos ( Belleville Black Knights ), Corps that were 80-90% African- American in membership ( CCMC Warriors ), Corps with red sneakers and Hawaiian Shirts ( Velvet Knights ), and dozens of shakos of all manner that provided a unique and diverse " look " to the various Corps, Corps where everyone in the Corps wore skirts, Corps where everyone in the Corps wore pants, and other Corps in Hot Pants, and so on and so forth. I do see Corps today that " look " different, but this diverse " look " among Corps of today, is certainly no more diverse in " look " that we had in the eras of the 70's, 80's. There was LOTS of diversity in Corps in the 70's and the 80's, and that is my central reply when it appears you believe that today's Corps offer MORE diversity than in the 70's, 80's. Even the marchers themselves in the 70's, 80's had a wide range of diversity among their Corps ranks, as well among the Corps that they competed with on the field of competition.

Edited April 23, 2013 by BRASSO

[MikeD]

Would it be fair to say that if your former Corps ( Cadets ) brought in former alums from the earliest days up to recent years, and took a vote on either keeping the 75 year old Cadets traditional uniforms for the Corps proper, or scraping the traditional Cadet style Cadets uniforms for Circus style costumes ( or whatever ) that between 90-97 % of your Corps Alums would not be for scrapping the 75 year old traditional Cadet uniform for the Corps proper ? I recall you stating on here before, MikeD that " DCP'ers do not represent the views of the general Drum Corps fan base ". I don't agree with that observation, but in this case I do believe that the overwhelming vast majority of Cadets Alums probably do not agree with you on this.

I don't care what others may or may not think. You asked what I think, so I told you.

[BRASSO]

I don't care what others may or may not think. You asked what I think, so I told you.

I do understand this, MikeD, but I do believe its fair to say that you do care what others think, as otherwise, you would not be reading what other fans are thinking.

I also believe your opinions are self developed and are not predicated on what others might believe. This is a noble thing as it speaks to maturity and independence of thought. I merely pointed out that many of of your Cadets Alums are probably independent thinking as well and as it relates to any future possibility of their Cadets Corps changing their 75 year old style uniform, for something found in Cirgue de Soleil costumes, ( that you said above that you would support ) 90-97% of your Cadets Alums likewise would not care for that,... nor care that you'd support this for your former Corps.

Edited April 23, 2013 by BRASSO

[MikeD]

I do understand this, MikeD, but I do believe its fair to say that you do care what others think, as otherwise, you would not be reading what other fans are thinking.

I also believe your opinions are self developed and are not predicated on what others might believe. This is a noble thing as it speaks to maturity and independence of thought. I merely pointed out that many of of your Cadets Alums are probably independent thinking as well and as it relates to any future possibility of their Cadets Corps changing their 75 year old style uniform, for something found in Cirgue de Soleil costumes, ( that you said above that you would support ) 90-97% of your Cadets Alums likewise would not care for that,... nor care that you'd support this for your former Corps.

OK...fair enough. I had written that I did not care what others think in forming my own opinion, but in making edits somehow that part got lost.

I am sure that alums of most corps would hate the idea of abandoning the concept of a somewhat military style uniform in favor of show-specfic costuming. On that we agree. However, IMO that is part of what would be needed to get rid of the "band geek" attitude that people have when they see a group like ANY of the corps or bands marching in uniform. The purpose of this thread is to discuss what we think is needed to make our little activity more entertaining, and IMO that is part of it if we want to have a chance to attract a wider audience.

Personally, I think there is a lot more that can be done to tie DCI to the scholastic music activity in attracting audience (and future members) at the HS and college level, without worrying about those who have zero interest in what we do.

[Pete Freedman]

This is of course, in the realm of personal preference. What is " impressive " is what makes an " impression " on you. And what makes an " impression " on you , may or may not make an " impression " on others. That said, you did finish the sentence with " in my opinion", and that is most appropriate here.

This thread is about " what will help DCI become more entertaining ". I'm not sure anyone can effectively answer this, as what is " entertaining " is certainly in the realm of personal preference as well.

Yes, that makes the discussion tough. But still valuable, because you get those different perspectives.

I do think that we can all agree here that we'd love to see bigger audiences. I don't know of anyone that wants to perform in front of smaller audiences if the choice is between a smaller audience or a larger audience. There is no denying that DCI Finals audiences in the 70's and early 80's were larger than they are the last decade. Everyone wants to see larger audiences, both live and observable via tape delay. As such, perhaps this thread title should have phrased by the OP in that fashion,( ie how do we attract bigger audiences ? ) instead of the phraseology utilized of " become more entertaining ? ".

Maybe more people are realizing today that the seats near the end zones are um, impaired. So perhaps the value of drum corps seats is going up on the 50, but going down on the 10. Maybe that's not so bad... ? Just asking...