What will help DCI become more entertaining

[Lincoln]

my biggest issue with the music chosen...but how it's arranged. allow full melodic lines develop and flow beyond 16 counts of transition into the next big hit with tons of body work underneath

I understand what you are saying. Thing is, someone brought up Crown's opener last year as a counterpoint to the argument (and I love that show). The opener was all over the place. It's not a thing to go out and hum or whistle. I loved every moment of it.

Like I originally stated "Every time I think about something to not like, I`ll think of a show to prove me wrong." This is one of those examples.

But perhaps in line with what you were stating, there are shows out there where you hear a melodic line that you just wish would continue.

Edited April 30, 2013 by LincolnV

[BigW]

We discuss a lot on this section of DCP what music we'd like to hear played in DCI. All thats well and good, but the focus really today ( as you correctly cited ) is from the Guard.

A DCI guard performer ( one of perhaps 35-40 ) carries more weight on the current DCI judging sheets than a brass performer ( one of more than 72- 84). A corps needs a strong Visual program with a strong Guard to place well in DCI under the curent judging sheets. And Corps today really are not judged in performance and execution as much as they are in " Show Design ". Increasingly, it is the adult Show Designers, mostly the Visual side, that are being judged on the field now.

For example, I do not believe for a second that the 2012 Brass line and Drum line of the Cavaliers could not play their Brass instruments nor their Percussive instruments as well as the 2011 Cavaliers Brass and Percussion sections. I don't believe that the 2012 marcher Cavaliers worked any less harder than their previous years Cavaliers Corps either. The 2012 Cvaliers Corps seemed veteran and mature enough from my eyesight observation... certainly not lacking in talent abilities with that of their 2011 Corps it appeared. So what changed that precipitated their placement drop to 8th last yrear ? Well, I believe it was the simple change in one staff member in the Cavaliers that altered their Visual program from the year before. So it really wasn't the 150 or so marchers that were judged. It was the single staff designer on the Visual side that most effected the " judging ", and thus their placement. It is the Visual design that bleeds heavily into the brass and percussion scores these days I 'm finding. I can not rationalize nor explain why this might be the case, only point out that it appears from my observations to be the case. So yes, the influence of WGI with its Visual emphasis has had an enormous impact on DCI Drum Corps. I do agree with you on this.

It was obvious to me the performers in that corps saved 8th place by performing the livin' bejeezis out of an awful program perpetrated on the viewers by the design staff. Bad/horrid guard costumes that would have had HS judging panels questioning a HS director if the kids were dressed that cheaply and poorly, a visual package that looked like everyone else's instead of having that special character the Cavies had from 1985 to 2011... I think over-relying on the designed-in electronic effects in the package to make the moments, I can go on. I really felt bad for the kids in that corps that I believe went there for a somewhat different experience and show than the one they presented.

[Pete Freedman]

Saxophones and Flutes ! ( haha!)

Violins.

Hear me out. Marching bands have woodwinds, right? So going that way would be unacceptable to many fans and participants. But... orchestral stringed instruments in the pit would have two key advantages, a sound that would be actually an important addition to many shows (they pipe it in anyway as a sound effect), and the snootiness factor that the "It's not a marching band!!!" folks would love.

[BRASSO]

Violins.

Hear me out. Marching bands have woodwinds, right? So going that way would be unacceptable to many fans and participants. But... orchestral stringed instruments in the pit would have two key advantages, a sound that would be actually an important addition to many shows (they pipe it in anyway as a sound effect), and the snootiness factor that the "It's not a marching band!!!" folks would love.

Teal sound utilized a " stringed instrument " in the pit ( rock guitar ), in performance competition. I have no idea what judge on the panel judged the rock guitar playing ( nor their experience and training in rock guitar to judge its playing ), so we really have already crossed a threshold. Most would agree that rock guitars and rock guitarists are universally associated with some level of Band .

Edited April 30, 2013 by BRASSO

[HockeyDad]

But that's just opinion. Watch the show. Every placement is right where it should be. Scores don't matter; intervals and placements do.

And why should it matter what the crowd reaction is? (Prepares flame-retardant suit)

I suppose if you see no relationship whatsoever between crowd appeal and crowd attendance, then I guess it wouldn't matter. So if you want to argue this in an academic setting, I would agree with you. But if you do see a relationship between the crowd liking the shows and the crowd coming back for future shows, then it does matter. I think you cannot separate the two. There will always be some absolute minimum of attendance (family, recent age outs) at any given show. But to get your additional attendance you cannot openly disdain your own customer. Not a long term success strategy.

[HockeyDad]

And I recall a TON of people LOVING BD this past season. Just because you might not have enjoyed it doesn't mean a majority didn't like it. In fact, the only people I found who didn't like it is the dinos, and they're the vast minority.

You'll win lots of arguments with name calling. I know politicians like this tactic, but do we need to do it here too?

[Pete Freedman]

Taking my point above a bit more seriously,

What if there were a points system in which each corps gets ten points to bend the rules. There would be a menu of 'variances' that a corps could select from, and a points cost for the various options. (Points in this sense having nothing to do with the score of course).

Don't worry, traditionalists: Some recent innovations can actually be pulled back, and added to the menu.

Example 'menu':

Non-standard instruments (a big list of instruments provided, includes 'keyboard and/or sound effects' as one instrument):

1 player, 4 pts

unlimited players, 6 pts

The above is for a single instrument type, so one violinist is 4 points, 30 violinists is 6 points, one violinist + one viola player is 8 points.

Note that of course these are not judged on execution, which should provide a natural limit to numbers.

Speakers: 3 pts

Mics (unlimited): 2 pts

The above includes amps and related equipment at no additional cost.

So, a laptop playing sound effects is 4 points, plus the speakers is a total of 7 points just for that.

Here's the kicker, traditionalists:

Extra person on field: 1 pt.

So, you get one additional marcher per point you don't use anywhere else.

Result: Lots of opportunities for innovation without losing the traditional core of the activity.

[BRASSO]

Why not simply get a current marching band circuit to allow any instrumention it wants into competition between these bands ? Allow an anything goes approach... including the use of G bugles, kazoos, oboes, violins, rock guitars, banjos,dulcimers, pipe organs, steel guitars, harmonica's, harpsichords, ukulele's, accordians, along with the conventional marching band instruments of clarinets, flutes, saxophones, etc and accompanied by singers, narrators, pyrotecnics for effects, etc. or whatever else. Why not ? But why not get the marching bands competition circuits to allow these innovative band instruments and accompaniments in first ? I'm just asking, thats all.

Edited April 30, 2013 by BRASSO

[BRASSO]

LOVING BD this past season. In fact, the only people I found who didn't like it is the dinos, and they're the vast minority.

My sense is that this is simply an inaccurate assessment.

Unless you believe that older Dinos are into tweeting from the shows that they are at. This is because there were lots of tweets from lots of shows from across the country last year re. the Blue Devils show .While BD did get a fair share of positive tweets, it would not be accurate to state that there were not a lot of tweets on BD's show performances that were less than complimentary. Older dinos generally don't tweet from shows. Overwhelmingly, the tweets from shows tend to come from the non dinos. You can scroll back on DCP yourself from last summer to see what the tweets were from the non dinos re. the BD show. This might help expand your own personal universe and experience of what the non dinos from across the country were saying re. the BD show.

Edited April 30, 2013 by BRASSO

[JamMan]

I suppose if you see no relationship whatsoever between crowd appeal and crowd attendance, then I guess it wouldn't matter. So if you want to argue this in an academic setting, I would agree with you. But if you do see a relationship between the crowd liking the shows and the crowd coming back for future shows, then it does matter. I think you cannot separate the two. There will always be some absolute minimum of attendance (family, recent age outs) at any given show. But to get your additional attendance you cannot openly disdain your own customer. Not a long term success strategy.

If we're talking about getting attendance numbers up, let's have finals somewhere else. A lot of people, shocker, don't want to spend their vacation going to the same place 10 years in a row. One of the appeals of the DCI Finals week was discovering a new city while enjoying good music and marching. My group of friends and family don't want to go to Indy. We're going to a regional and local shows as always, but skipping finals.