Jeff Ream Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I wasn't saying that. I was saying the historical evidence indicates that TV isn't likely to spark a drum corps revival. The fact that we had that a national stage on PBS for all those years and yet failed to stem the decline in numbers and audience is as troublesome an indictment as I know for drum corps. Think about it. Millions could watch live or recorded Madison in 75 or SCV in 88/89 and everything in between - and still the number of corps kept dwinding... HH right. because it got more expensive to run a corps ( and no, I'm not blamind DCI for this like many will). Costs have grown.You can't go on tour and raid every McDonalds along the way. You need payfor food and gas, which is so much higher....insurance...you name it. Now...could DCI have done a better job getting better advertisers to help cut some costs? Sure. But that horse has been beaten many times. from a tv perspective.....we don't draw blue chip advertisers. It's a youth event, so you can't trot out beer ads. We're still "marching band" to most of the world, and we aren't as attractive to advertisers as cheerleading, log rolling, even reruns of AWA wrestling from the late 80's when the promotion sucked. Add in a product that is not tv friendly, be it length of time shows run as well as tv doesn't truly give the whole picture. The only way tv may help in any way shape or form would be some form of relaity show, but even then, I don't think it'd do that much good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 right. because it got more expensive to run a corps ( and no, I'm not blamind DCI for this like many will). Costs have grown.You can't go on tour and raid every McDonalds along the way. You need payfor food and gas, which is so much higher....insurance...you name it. Now...could DCI have done a better job getting better advertisers to help cut some costs? Sure. But that horse has been beaten many times. from a tv perspective.....we don't draw blue chip advertisers. It's a youth event, so you can't trot out beer ads. We're still "marching band" to most of the world, and we aren't as attractive to advertisers as cheerleading, log rolling, even reruns of AWA wrestling from the late 80's when the promotion sucked. Add in a product that is not tv friendly, be it length of time shows run as well as tv doesn't truly give the whole picture. The only way tv may help in any way shape or form would be some form of relaity show, but even then, I don't think it'd do that much good Are you saying these things from a fan perspective or a MM viewpoint? If it could be done, what's the target audience and purpose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 No. A minute of intro time, nine minutes of performance, and another minute or so of cleanup, then cut to break (assuming it's on cable), coming back in time to lather/rinse/repeat with the next corps. In the ESPN years, DCI was already showing cut versions of every show - the winning shows were cut down to 5 minutes or so as it was. While it sounds short to us now, if you watched some nine-minute productions in an actual tv environment, you'd probably find that it felt like a comparably long time of uncut coverage. Frankly, I'd be fine with that if it brought bucks to DCI and the corps. I endured the show time cut once; I can do it again to nine minutes if it would get us on TV. If we put up with nine-minute shows for a while and the target audience grows, it could always grow back to 11 1/2 minutes. Nothing's permanent and negotiations could happen every year based on growth of revenue, if any. Cut shows are no good, period, and I can see designers pitching a b**ch about continuity and flow. I'd agree with them. Chopping shows is like "letter-boxing" classic movies in that it changes the perception of what the creator had in mind. If content is important at all it has to be presented from beginning to end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 (edited) Frankly, I'd be fine with that if it brought bucks to DCI and the corps. I endured the show time cut once; I can do it again to nine minutes if it would get us on TV. If we put up with nine-minute shows for a while and the target audience grows, it could always grow back to 11 1/2 minutes. Nothing's permanent and negotiations could happen every year based on growth of revenue, if any. That's probably the most rational thing I've read this week. Edited April 23, 2013 by Slingerland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Are you saying these things from a fan perspective or a MM viewpoint? If it could be done, what's the target audience and purpose? yes. The game has gotten more expensive for everyone. Taking a family of 4 to a show isn't cheap. moving a drum corps isn't cheap. and getting the product on tv isn't cheap. It can't be done. The genie on containing costs in todays economic environment to make it possible to have packed houses and 100's of drum corps ain't happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 The genie on containing costs in todays economic environment to make it possible to have packed houses and 100's of drum corps ain't happening. Except for the "packed houses" line, that's the second most rational thing I've read. Packed houses are totally possible, depending on where the events take place. Put DCI in markets where there's a drum corps fan base, and you can sell it. Put it in Minneapolis or Indy, and you probably can't. (As an experiment, I'd be curious as to what would happen if DCI would take ONE year out and move Finals week to Madison or Philly or Pasadena again. If the paid attendance popped up 10,000 seats, would that give them the evidence they need not to renew the Indy deal?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 TV really CAN save drum corps, but it won't be with drum corps in the same form and on the same stage it is now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Except for the "packed houses" line, that's the second most rational thing I've read. Packed houses are totally possible, depending on where the events take place. Put DCI in markets where there's a drum corps fan base, and you can sell it. Put it in Minneapolis or Indy, and you probably can't. (As an experiment, I'd be curious as to what would happen if DCI would take ONE year out and move Finals week to Madison or Philly or Pasadena again. If the paid attendance popped up 10,000 seats, would that give them the evidence they need not to renew the Indy deal?) Except your definition of a 'packed house' is way flawed. Finals held in Indy can certainly be a 'packed house' if DCI chose to pack the house. Hold DCI Finals in Indy at the Lucas Oil Can and you have a rather empty stadium; however, hold DCI Finals in Indy at Butler Stadium and you not only will have a 'packed house' it would be and 'overflowing' house with people turned away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 yes. The game has gotten more expensive for everyone. Taking a family of 4 to a show isn't cheap. moving a drum corps isn't cheap. and getting the product on tv isn't cheap. It can't be done. The genie on containing costs in todays economic environment to make it possible to have packed houses and 100's of drum corps ain't happening. I didn't make my point clear. Presuming that it can be made to work, who would the target audience be? What's the point? Is to sell entertainment to get BITS? Is it to appeal to kids to march? Is it to put sponsorship money in DCI/Corps pockets? What's the point? The goal? I have a simple plaque that sits on the bookcase in my office. Four simple words: "It Can Be Done" I think it can be done (get on TV). My specific question is: Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Except for the "packed houses" line, that's the second most rational thing I've read. Packed houses are totally possible, depending on where the events take place. Put DCI in markets where there's a drum corps fan base, and you can sell it. Put it in Minneapolis or Indy, and you probably can't. (As an experiment, I'd be curious as to what would happen if DCI would take ONE year out and move Finals week to Madison or Philly or Pasadena again. If the paid attendance popped up 10,000 seats, would that give them the evidence they need not to renew the Indy deal?) I'm not so much looking to "pack houses" as I am increasing viewership, be it on TV or in the stands. To your second point, these six states: Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, PA, and New York account for over 25% of DCI's market share. California is the largest, but is only a little over 11% and Texas is 7.5%. Lucas Oil is smack-dab in the middle of the hotbed of drum corps, where the largest majority of existing fans are. (But so is Bloomington.) I think the question is: does DCI hold its finals where the largest concentration of fans are, or does it move to one of the other 40 states where market share is just a fraction of those six states? Eastern Colorado is actually close to the center of the largest market-share states, but DCI would be asking the greatest concentration of fans to travel from the mid-western states, even if travel would be much easier for CA and TX fans. I think the location of finals is fine. If anything, the venue is wrong. But, as much as I loved Bloomington, I'm really get used to the plush, comfy seats at The Can. I'd risk the rain to go back to Bloomington, but my rear would be much more sore after three days in those stands. And there are no hotels in Bloomington. In all, I don't think LOS is horrible, even if the sound stinks, if it's the proper location geographically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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