Blue Devils 2013

[BRASSO]

and their execution was unquestionably great, especially 90-93

from my perspective the most underrated and currently disrespected Champion in modern times just might be the Cadets of 1993. They bested Star of Indiana 4 out of the last 5 head to head matchups in August of 1993 and including the Semi's and the Finals. These 5 shows exposed both corps to the widest variety of the DCI judging panels too at the time, andCadets won 4 out of the important 5 head to head matchups down the stretch.

In my view, it was not the Visuals, Design, Guard, GE that lost for Star of Indiana to the Cadets. It was the execution captions. If one looks at the breakdowns of the captions in these last 5 shows, it was mostly the execution captions that allowed the Cadets a few tenths in cushion to put them over the top in 1993. Who here knows that Star came in 4th in drums in the Semi's in 1993 ? When we call Star's " execution unqustionably great " are we referring to percussion in the Semi's ? When we state that "their execution was unquestionably great " are we referring to their drill execution at Finals in '93 ? If we are, then I might take a slight issue with this, as they did have some cover and dress and spacing issues with drill execution, particularly in the first portion to mid portion of their show on Finals Night in '93. The 2 visual execution judges thought so too, as they had Star in 4th in Field Visual and 2nd in Ensemble Visual, for a combined 3rd place in Visual Perf. on Finals Night. Daon't get me wrong, Star was an innovative Corps, but it was the Cadets that were worthy Champions in 1993, and they are probably the most unappreciated Titleist in modern times as few today talk about their worthiness that year where they won 4 out of the 5 matchups in August of 93 and from the widest variety of DCI judging panels to boot.

[BRASSO]

That is close to the reaction of fans to the Bridgemen in 1976 when they donned the banana unis. I recall LOTS of "It's not drum corps" comments in the stands, especially by the at-the-time legacy fans.

The Bayonne Bridgemen were perhaps the most innovative Drum Corps in history, imo.

They were TOTALLY unlike any other Corps when they came out in 1976. Not just in music. But in unis... in entrance onto the field... brass laquered bugles.... on even the level of diversity within their Corps ranks. None of the other elite Corps at the time had as many minorities in their Corps ranks. This Corps gave off an " urban diversity vibe " that was totally unprecedented for its time. They were totally unique from the other Corps. And I mean totally... even more so than Star over other Corps in their timeframe. While just about every other Corps in the mid 70's was moving in ethos and vibes to the 'Burbs, the Bridgemen vibe and ethos was taking us to the City with their shows. The Bridgemen eschewed the military look in vogue with Corps typical style and unis at this timeframe and went for unis that Corps staff informed us later thry got its inspiration from sidewalks pimps attire they saw coming out of a nightclub one night in NYC. Just think about that for a moment, and how honest, refreshing and different this was... and how creative. The Bridgemen were greeted, particularly in the midwest, with raised eyebrows and a look of bewilderment.... and this was just the reaction they got with their entrance onto the field from the stadium gates or from the tunnel. They also made it quite clear that they did not care for the judges placement and scores, that their show design would be 100% based upon what would shake up the staid sensibilities of the early DCI at the time in the early 70's and go full bore with an attempt to entertain the audience with music, shuffling ( not marching ), and visual effects that average everyday people would find engaging. Nobody, but nobody was " marching " in shows like the Bridgemen were doing. What was unique about the Bridgemen is that they turned skeptical or even hostile crowds around within a minute of their opener. They were true performers as they had the ability to make people turn a skeptical and/ or bewildered look into smiles. Thats what staff and their performers that are creative and have enormous desires to please diverse audiences are capable of. Few people booed the Bridgemen after they watched them. The hate was dissipated. In performance. They never won a DCI title. We don't remember them today for this fact either. If we are looking for a Corps that was controversial, different, innovative, creative, the Bayonne Bridgemen were the real deal. From the moment your jaw dropped as you saw them come off their busses in those uniforms, to the moment you later smiled and waved at their bus as it exited the stadium parking lot.

Edited June 4, 2013 by BRASSO

[Big Bad Bari]

Nope, I call BS on that. I mean, it sounds so...Beiber to complain about audience members disliking a corps' artistic concept. We all come to the table with preconceptions-good or bad. Does that give corps members a license to tell people who dislike your so-called art to spin on a gong mallet? Absolutely not. If a person is not emotionally mature enough to handle criticism then perhaps music shouldn't be their vocation.

The real question is why can't an audience member say "I appreciate the technical aspect of your performance, but the concept left me wonting" without being villified or looked at as a target to throw up the proverbial middle finger to because they fail to understand the light that your art is bringing into the world?

So I wonder where the poster you refer to said he told people to sit on that cotton mallet, or did he say, that it was his quiet whisper in his mind? I read it as his attempt to galvanize himself against feeling bad about what he was doing and to cultivate anger to fuel his performance. I marched a corps that was fueled by anger and we won DCI because of our determined attitude. A determined attitude makes you do EVERYTHING HARDER, work, play all of it!

MikeD and Plan9... Here is the direct quote from the question posed by Plan9 which elicited my response:

And I gave a 'serious' specific answer relating directly to that specific question. (This is a claimed Major League; dominate winners get booed in all Major Leagues; MM's should put on big boy/girl pants and suck it up). You two may not have liked my answer, but it certainly was germane to this 'specific' question.

Now I was told that there is NO ONE who boos BD because they are a dominating winner, in fact we are told on this board, quite the opposite with unbelievable regularity, that it is ONLY about show design. STU, in the words of a guy you consider smart... You can't have it both ways! Right?

[Stu]

Now I was told that there is NO ONE who boos BD because they are a dominating winner, in fact we are told on this board, quite the opposite with unbelievable regularity, that it is ONLY about show design. STU, in the words of a guy you consider smart... You can't have it both ways! Right?

You are correct; you cannot have it both ways. My point is this: It does not, and should not, matter why they get booed (win, loose, show design, uniforms, playing style,...); they should just suck it up and develop thick skin because this is, according to the powers of DCI (including the powers at BD), a 'Major League' not a look-out-for their-feelings pee-wee league. And since DCI is a 'Major League', to utilize quote from a great Movie, "There's no crying in [DCI]."

[BRASSO]

I marched a corps that was fueled by anger and we won DCI because of our determined attitude. :devil:/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>

You can't have it both ways! Right?

Exactly. One can not state that " we don't care about what the audience thinks of our show.".. or state that " we don't listen to what people say on DCP " and so forth..... but then state that the audience reaction reaches them to a boiling point that fuels their anger. There is a disconnect there in logic and reason. if the performers don't care what the audiernces think of their show, then simply demonstrate that previously articulated unconcern when they might criticise it at a later date.

Also, we start from the premise that staffs are smart and perceptive people. They know when a show is going to " offend " ( as one poster said ). So it is natural to assume that in the planning and preparation stage that the staff plan and prepare their marchers with the knowledge that their show for the season is probably not going to be a crowd pleaser but the goal is to win a DCI title despite this. With such preparation and proper planning, there is no need for the performer to be ( as you said ) " fueled with anger with the audience " as you were prepared in the first place that the audience reaction is irrelevent to the goal that has been set forth and properly explained to marchers beforehand. As such, every MM in such a Corps is presumably on board with this, ( or if not, the logical thing to do is to find a Corps that does place an emphasis on positive reactions to their show as this matches their personal interest better ). When a show that is designed in such a fashion that it is" meant to offend " or is " meant to be be a head scratcher for many " and then meets with this expected and natural reaction on the part of audiences, then what exactly is the surprise, angst, anger here ? I don't get why marchers are " offended " or others " angered " or "confused " by audience reactions or DCP'ers reactions to shows when these type of shows were designed by adults on these staffs to do precisely this for many in audiences from coast to coast.

Edited June 5, 2013 by BRASSO

[jjeffeory]

As opposed to the hundreds of corps that folded in the 20 years before that.

And the hundreds that came and went prior to the advent of DCI the 20 years before that.

I do agree on the high brow symphonic music thing though. Let's look at 2012...I thought the Cadets and Crown 2012 shows were just waaaay over the top with high brow user-unfriendly music (Crown's Copland shows up in 1965 by the Seldon Cadets). SCV...playing Mars and Jupiter??? Who EVER would have thought of such a thing prior to 1993. Oh, that's right...I played those in the Cadets in 1972. Blue Knights...playing Firebird? Never been done before, well at least not before 1969 on corpsreps. And of course, Madison's show was just waaay to esoteric. BAC playing Mahler's 1st...we played his 5th in 1972...and Pines of Rome...oh, yes, that great Muchacho's 1975 show used that. Cavies "Hall of the Mountain King"? shows up in corpsreps as early as 1968 (for three corps).

Mike,

I don't agree with FlamMan but I'd like to point out it's not the "what" that is being played; it's "How" that what is being arranged that is the problem.

Also, most of the esoteric crap from 1994 - 1999 is what got us to the "how" things are being arranged that we have today. Frankly, I believe that we're on the up swing of arranging though...

[jjeffeory]

I heard them boo'ed in Ohio, Michigan (is that where Preview was that year?), and a few other shows I can't remember

I didn't go to Preview the year that many say that they were booed. I try to never go to Michigan .

All I can say is that I saw them quite a bit and don't remember hearing them being booed.

I'll take your word for it though, as I didn't go to all the shows every year, but I did go to A LOT.

.and to be a little on topic, I don't believe that I've heard BD being booed at a local show, but maybe there was booing at finals?

Edited June 5, 2013 by jjeffeory

[MikeD]

The Bayonne Bridgemen were perhaps the most innovative Drum Corps in history, imo.

You'll get no disagreement here. I loved what they became starting in 76. Sad to say, that was not close to a universal opinion back then, at least in the beginning.

[jjeffeory]

from my perspective the most underrated and currently disrespected Champion in modern times just might be the Cadets of 1993. They bested Star of Indiana 4 out of the last 5 head to head matchups in August of 1993 and including the Semi's and the Finals. These 5 shows exposed both corps to the widest variety of the DCI judging panels too at the time, andCadets won 4 out of the important 5 head to head matchups down the stretch.

In my view, it was not the Visuals, Design, Guard, GE that lost for Star of Indiana to the Cadets. It was the execution captions. If one looks at the breakdowns of the captions in these last 5 shows, it was mostly the execution captions that allowed the Cadets a few tenths in cushion to put them over the top in 1993. Who here knows that Star came in 4th in drums in the Semi's in 1993 ? When we call Star's " execution unquestionably great " are we referring to percussion in the Semi's ? When we state that "their execution was unquestionably great " are we referring to their drill execution at Finals in '93 ? If we are, then I might take a slight issue with this, as they did have some cover and dress and spacing issues with drill execution, particularly in the first portion to mid portion of their show on Finals Night in '93. The 2 visual execution judges thought so too, as they had Star in 4th in Field Visual and 2nd in Ensemble Visual, for a combined 3rd place in Visual Perf. on Finals Night. Don't get me wrong, Star was an innovative Corps, but it was the Cadets that were worthy Champions in 1993, and they are probably the most unappreciated Titleist in modern times as few today talk about their worthiness that year where they won 4 out of the 5 matchups in August of 93 and from the widest variety of DCI judging panels to boot.

I'm perplexed about this theory. Look at the videos and tell me which corps executed better. Cadets had more visual problems that night than Star. Of course I haven't seen the recaps, so I don't know if that showed up on the sheets, but you can go back and watch the video and see plenty of dirt.

[MikeD]

Mike,

I don't agree with FlamMan but I'd like to point out it's not the "what" that is being played; it's "How" that what is being arranged that is the problem.

Also, most of the esoteric crap from 1994 - 1999 is what got us to the "how" things are being arranged that we have today. Frankly, I believe that we're on the up swing of arranging though...

Totally disagree that the arranging is a 'problem', or even "was" a problem. There have been great and not-so-great shows in every era. Right in the middle of your years is one of my all time favorite shows...Cadets 97. In that era you had some wonderful Regiment moment/shows (Clair De Lune comes from then), Cavies Planets show, Crown Stormworks, on and on...there were amazing shows of that era every year in a wide variety of styles.