Blue Devils 2013

[Plan9]

Plan,

I'll chime in ( even though I'm not the Jeff you're talking to)... I think a LOT of people were jealous of Star because the corps was perceived to have money and were successful initially, even though they worked their butts off just as much as any other corps. I believe that people felt that they hadn't paid their dues and earned their way to the top. I think I heard people say "that's the best corps money can buy" many times...

Also, some people were upset with them in '90 because they were scoring well with what some people thought was a dirty visual show. Frankly, Star had always had some detractors because of of their initial success, and it never really left them. That opened the door to criticize performance and choice of production.

Frankly, there were a couple of years where I heard a few people in Star say that they felt that Star should have placed higher ( '88 and '89) but didn't because of politics; so they knew that they had to be that much better than the rest in order to earn a higher placement.

Thanks JJ. All of these great posts concerning perspectives of SOI (in the day) say a great deal about the activity, its innovators, its fans, its participants and the changing environment that has greeted DCI through the years. I have a different perspective and admittedly take some liberties with comparisons to BD based on experiences in 09-10 and semi's 2010 when BD ageouts (as well as other corps) and SOI legacy MM's came face to face on the field. The cycle of overt disapproval becoming a moment of closure when everyone looked past the "then" angst with SOI and just poured out emotion and affection to the MM's who (after all) were only trying to entertain and do their best back then.

The DCI vets on DCP are an endless source of information and perspective...and I have the highest and most sincere appreciation and respect for it. Hug a Dino! :thumbup:/>

[BRASSO]

Thanks JJ. All of these great posts concerning perspectives of SOI (in the day) say a great deal about the activity, its innovators, its fans, its participants and the changing environment that has greeted DCI through the years. I have a different perspective and admittedly take some liberties with comparisons to BD based on experiences in 09-10 and semi's 2010 when BD ageouts (as well as other corps) and SOI legacy MM's came face to face on the field. The cycle of overt disapproval becoming a moment of closure when everyone looked past the "then" angst with SOI and just poured out emotion and affection to the MM's who (after all) were only trying to entertain and do their best back then.

The DCI vets on DCP are an endless source of information and perspective...and I have the highest and most sincere appreciation and respect for it. Hug a Dino! :thumbup:/>/>/>/>

Good post. I think moving forward that we should all be able to agree that no marcher should ever feel shocked or surprised with an audiences overall level of acceptance of their show. Surely, the MM know in the preseason, well before they perform in public if their show is going to be a fan friendly show or not. We here on DCP are already aware of indications of certain Corps shows that are going to be head scratchers, or will be met with less than overall approval. Staffs that design shows are not tone deaf either. They know. MM's know as well. If they are on board with this level of show being esoteric or confusing, then they bought into it ( literally, and figuratively ). This is likewise true of Corps that understand that their chances of scoring well with their show is slim to none. The MM's likewise can change to a Corps that'll probably score higher, place higher. But if they decide to march in a Corps that has a fan friendly show and are loved by audiences, then they made that choice too and we would no more criticise them for participating in a Corps that scores low with the judges any more than participation in a Corps whose shows scores low with audiences. Maybe 2012 BD Marchers were caught toitally off guard with the less than satisfactory audience reception of their show in 2012 ( compared to say, Phantom Regiment's Spartacus Title winning show ), but moving forward, they should know these things well before they step foot on the competition field in late June. All MM's and staff have an obligation to do their due diligence on whether or not their show is going to be fan friendly or not... or potentially score high with the judges or not. And simply buy into it, or don't buy into it. This way there is no excuse for later becoming " fueled with anger by audiences ". Thats not a healthy long term emotion to have, and its never a good thing for a performer in the Performing Arts to develop a jaded, caustic, cynical, opinion of the paying customer to a performance.

Edited June 5, 2013 by BRASSO

[chaddyt]

Well, the Drum Corps activity has been all down hill since '93 Star, & there is a direct correlation between when Drum Corps started playing overly sophisticated high brow symphonic music to the diminishing interest amongst fans, potential corps members & the number of corps who have folded in the last 20 years.

Please show your work.

[flammaster]

Please show your work.

Good reply!!!

[DrumManTx]

Some interesting views I must say. Making for an interesting topic to follow. I'm going back into the shadows now. Carry on.

[Stu]

I am really not sure what to say guys... Are you seriously stating that the "frame of mind" and the "method of motivation utilized INTERNALLY" of and by the MM during their performance is something that should be both controlled and monitored. I am quite interested in how you propose to handle this, I would think the machinery needed to monitor the MM's thoughts might just cost enough to kill off DCI! Or do you actually think that with 150 different people out on the field, that perhaps there are numerous methods used for internal motivation and all should be just fine, as we are all different. Hmmmmmm wondering..... :blink:/>

I am just saying if this is a Major League treat it as a Major League; and if this is a Major League I say to those involved stop being crybabies about any booing or flat stay at home to suck their thumbs while crying to mommie.

[Jeff Ream]

Yes. I happen to like 93 of those two, but then again I am a big Don Ellis fan.

93 grew on me. but oh 94....when they came East early.

really, when you analyze finals, it wasn't that everyone caught up to BD, it's that BD really didn't have much room to go higher

[Jeff Ream]

When I say "unquestionably great," I'm mostly referring to Star winning brass & percussion. To be blunt, it doesn't matter what Star did in Semifinals. They were consistently dominant in brass and percussion throughout the year, and they were 'on' at Finals. Cadets were pretty solid in GE (which they won over-all, thanks to Percussion & Vis), as well as over-all vis. Cadets had a GREAT percussion section, that I would say was just a smidgen lower than Star, especially on Finals night (when Cadets ticked the snare solo); if I remember correctly, the Percussion Caption was Star by .2 over Cadets, and then a pretty big gap for 3rd place. Star was pretty spotless on the field in 93, and listening to the judge tape that is online is pretty irrefutable.

From a visual design standpoint, I think it would not be out of line to say that Star was more innovative, and perhaps the judges didn't quite know how to score them (kind of like SCV in, what was it, 80 when they went asymmetrical?). However, Star did have visual dirt, and Cadets were cleaner (as were Phantom, if I remember correctly)

Cadets of Bergen County 1993 is probably the show that I would say is my all-time favorite. I saw that show in early June and new they were likely going to win; I've heard TONS of camp tapes, know plenty of people who marched in that corps, and I absolutely love that show. It is undeniable that they earned that Championship, and performed a great show. I agree that they often get lost in the conversations about 1993 as people often talk about Star's almost-won performance.

Of course, in relationship to this thread, I think many could argue that Blue Devils from the last five years might take the 'title' of most under-appreciated Champions: at least on DCP...

agree with everything on 93 Cadets. love the show, listen to lot tapes still today. and that tenor feature changed the nature of the instrument

[Jeff Ream]

I am just saying if this is a Major League treat it as a Major League; and if this is a Major League I say to those involved stop being crybabies about any booing or flat stay at home to suck their thumbs while crying to mommie.

look...it's a competition and fans have their favorites...and enemies. some idiots will boo. people will come on here and vent if they don't like it.

deal with it. if we're truly teaching real life lessons, it's that you can't be universally loved, and you don't get credit for the attempt

[N.E. Brigand]

Early '80s and earlier, to be blunt, are a mess as far as show designs, and pretty lame to me. There are some good shows in that era, but I would call that early DCI era ('72 to the start of the build-up system) to be the dark ages of shows. Earlier shows that were more militaristic at least have reasons to be what they are, but the weird era when DCI was trying to straddle the line from militaristic to artistic is just bizarre, with a lot of muddled, incredibly boring shows (and awful tone from many of the brass lines, especially compared to now). I appreciate the history, but those shows do zero for me, and until SCV started with the asymmetrical drill and Cadets '82-'83-ish, most of the early DCI era is horribly dated and boring.

Of course that's just me; I grew up with a different era of drum corps, so naturally that stuff appeals to me. That's why I don't pay much attention to DCA, competitive alumni corps, etc. But I also don't hang out in their forums and complain about stuff either. Also, I would MUCH rather see Blue Devils try different stuff and fail artistically or from an entertainment or whatever standpoint than win DCI playing the same ol' charts every year.

Do alumni corps compete? I wasn't aware of that.

Last year, I attended finals for the first time. And then the second time. And then the third time. That is to say: I made my first trips ever to DCI Open Class Finals, DCI World Class Finals, and DCA Finals--and that last evening was the most enjoyable show I've ever seen live. There are extenuating circumstances that probably contributed to my experience,* but if you haven't seen a DCA show before and the opportunity arises, by all means do so! All-age corps are not stuck in the 1970s, by any means.

*footnote:

(1) The competition for my-favorite-live-show-ever wasn't very stiff, because I've seen relatively few (by DCP standards)--fewer than 20. Certainly I have seen videos of DCI championships (all that are available) that I almost certainly would have enjoyed more than last year's DCA finals.

(2) I'd never seen any DCA corps perform live before (in fact, the only DCA corps I'd seen at all were Governaires and Minnesota Brass on the DCI Fan Network, earlier in the year). Having ignored the DCA forums here, I knew of all-age corps almost entirely from descriptions (practically warnings) from friends circa 1990, when I first encountered drum corps, who told me that the senior corps so much less impressive than the junior corps that I needn't bother seeking them out, so I was positioned to be pleasantly surprised. By contrast, I'd seen every 2012 DCI show more than once (on the Fan Network) by the time I got to Indianapolis.

(3) My seat in Indianapolis cost about 50% more for a far worse location than my seat in Annapolis (where, with less than two weeks' notice, I was able to get a seat high on the 50-yard line--and I'd had the same luck for DCI's Open Class finals!) and it was disappointing to find that the acoustics in Lucas Oil Stadium really are as bad as many had reported. Unless the judges' seats at LOS are in some magically sweet spot, I can't understand why music scores don't go down between Allentown and Indy. (And too much noise bled into my LOS seating section from the concourse behind; they need curtains in the voms.)

(4) There was a decent chance of the DCA Finals being cancelled, as the possibility of storms was high and the previous night's Prelims had a significant rain delay. Given that I was driving seven hours (one way) just to see the one night and was primed for the possibility of that disappointing outcome, this meant that merely having the show come off without a hitch added a sense of accomplishment.

(5) There are no synthesizers (yet) in DCA, and synths are what I detest most in DCI shows. (I am philosophically opposed to amplification, just as I am philosophically opposed to the pit, but in practice accept the pit entirely--having never known otherwise in person--and mostly ignore the amplification.) I had the bad luck to return to my drum corps fandom after a ten-year absence because I so enjoyed the theater broadcast of the 2008 quarterfinals, only to find at my first live show in 2009 that there was this horrible bass noise being generated electronically.

(6) The Commandant's Own. At the very first drum corps show I ever attended, a local show in Parma, OH, while the scores were being tabulated, there was a performance by the U.S. Marine Drum and Bugle Corps, which was entertaining in its own way--especially for what I distinctly remember to have been an ensemble of not more than 15 people! In particular, I recall there having been just one contra, whose volume was all the more impressive. And the drill was mostly an arc that shifted to a line and back. So that's what I expected to see as the opening act in Annapolis, not a corps of more than 60 members!

(7) There seems to be an emphasis in DCA on entertainment and showmanship that generates its own excellence. Sometimes in DCI--or in commentary about DCI--it seems this idea is mocked: that elite corps X could easily please the crowd if they lowered themselves to the level of the entertainers, but they won't because they're pursuing a supposedly higher artistic purpose. I have never been convinced by such arguments, and I think I once quoted George Bernard Shaw's reply to critics of Oscar Wilde, dismissed as a mere comic playwright whose "epigrams can be turned out by the score by any one light-minded enough to condescend to such frivolity. As far as I can ascertain, I am the only person in London who cannot sit down and write an Oscar Wilde play at will". To wit: many of the DCA corps last year actually made me care about screaming trumpet solos, something that I indeed had hitherto often considered a "frivolity".

However, there are two final caveats: (A) I had gotten about as much entertainment as I could process by the time the show was about half over: I might have left even happier than I did had I quit after Kidsgrove Scouts performed--and they placed seventh. Everything else was gravy. (More gravy: the lovely encore by Star United minicorps.) (B) Since going to Annapolis, I've acquired all the DCA videos that I could find for sale (too few of them are available) and have not been as consistently impressed as I was last September--though partly because the recording quality is highly variable and generally well below the DCI standard.

Now back to your regularly scheduled Blue Devils discussion. (Nobody here or in the Open Class discussions seems to have noticed the announcement of BDC's 2013 rep.)

Edited June 6, 2013 by N.E. Brigand