Differences in BD, Cavies, Cadets Championship seasons

[theCHEZman]

In general I'd say the Cadets shows tend to fully mature much later in the season, often due to the demand it takes to clean them.

In 2011 they opened in 4th place. Then 2nd the next night. Then they went on to beat BD at every show out west. So they were certainly no surprise early in 2011. During the Cinecast of the first two shows you can hear Rondinero say "The Cadets will be heard from this season." No they didn't dominate all season. That show was too demanding and too spread over the field in such an intricate way for them to dominate so early, but it was clear which show had the most potential to take Worlds.

In 2005 they were certainly strong, but also a very difficult show and it needed time to gel and clean.

In 2000 they were dominant right out of the gate. 1 tie, no losses.

In 1998 they were fairly dominant that year. They might have lost 3 or 4 shows total.

In 1993 it was a two-horse race between Cadets and Star. I still would have given that title to Star, but Cadets were certainly no slouch.

In 1990 The Cadets were a solid top 3 or 4 from the opening of the season. The odd thing about 1990 was that all of the top 6 corps had major victories during the season. BD and Phantom started undefeated until mid-season, then the Cavaliers toppled both. Star started over Cadets on the east, but then the Cadets put in their ending and ultimately it was Cadets and Cavaliers in the top 2, with Star establishing themselves as the Brass monsters.

In 1987 it was a two-horse race between the Cadet (Garfield) and SCV. Cadets lost a few shows early, but quickly became the dominant corps from the east.

In 1985 the Cadets were top 2 most of the season if you look at the scores. SCV was the no. 1 seed if you will, but Cadets were top 2 all year and pulled off the victory in the end.

In 1984 the Cadets maybe lost 2 or 3 shows all year. One to Phantom, and 1 or 2 to BD. That's about it.

In 1983 they were the dominant corps out of the gate.

WHAT DOES THIS TELL US?

1. Typically the Cadets are in the top 3 or 4 out of the gate on their championship years.

2. They were more dominant in the 80s where their first 4 championships saw them come out of the gate top 2 in each of those years.

3. 1990 was an interesting year in which 6 corps looked to have potential championship seasons come the beginning of tour. Once the GE captions began to sparkle for the Cadets and Cavaliers that race was narrowed to 2.

4. In 1993 they were top 2 from the start, and in 1998 they were top 3 from the start

5. In 2000 they reminded us of the 1983/84 corps and came out roaring.

Couldn't have asked for a more comprehensive answer than that! Thank you JWillis35!

[chaddyt]

...

WHAT DOES THIS TELL US?

1. Typically the Cadets are in the top 3 or 4 out of the gate on their championship years.

...

Great recap JWillis. I'd be interested to see how they fared in the early seasons where they ended up out of medal contention. If memory serves, they generally seem to start around 3rd or 4th in those years as well.

[84BDsop]

In 1984 the Cadets maybe lost 2 or 3 shows all year. One to Phantom, and 1 or 2 to BD. That's about it.

4...DCI Canada prelims and finals to Regiment, Whitewater finals to SCV, Landsdale (our last show before finals week) to BD.

[jwillis35]

Great recap JWillis. I'd be interested to see how they fared in the early seasons where they ended up out of medal contention. If memory serves, they generally seem to start around 3rd or 4th in those years as well.

Very true. I think it's the years that the Cadets did not win that often get talked about. 1992 seems to be the most common analogy people use for their ability to push up the ladder. In 1992 they began the year in the 5 to 6 position (theoretically). I mean, nobody really knows where a corps truly ranks because they don't all compete until later in the summer (with some exceptions, like in 2011).

Last year they were a solid top 3/4 from the beginning to end. Not bad for a very good Christmas show that simply lacked some GE punch and had a few bad transitions. Ultimately the design just didn't gel.

LET'S TALK TALENT

Earlier in this post there was some conversation about the talent of the Cadets vs. BD and Cavies. Honestly, I would have no clue. I have always felt that BD probably gets the most talent, at least from a musical perspective (and guard). I can usually hear this in their articulations from top to bottom within the sections. Better, more polished sounds from top to bottom than everyone except Crown. They are typically going to be older (on avg) than other top 12 corps, so the maturity level is high, as is the experience.

But talent alone does not always win you a title. Mind you, it gets you plenty if you have good staff and show design, and the Blue Devils have had plenty of that...hence 15 titles. If there have been two corps that can, occasionally challenge the BD it has been Cadets and Cavaliers. Why? Not so much talent, but work ethic and show design. I truly believe that Hopkins and his staff, and Fiedler (when he was there) and his staff new one important thing: if you were going to take down BD you had to have the superior show and hope to stay close in the performance captions.

Let's face it, how many corps are going to beat the BD in marching ex, brass, percussion, and guard? Not a lot. How many can beat them in two or more performance captions come the end of the summer? Well, maybe Cadets and Cavaliers in drums, Crown certainly in Brass, maybe Cadets in marching (Cavies too), and maybe Cadets on a good year in guard (Phantom as well). In other words, it is unlikely anyone beats them in two or more performance captions come finals...SO, you have to beat them in design and GE. This is why the Cavies and Cadets have put out so many amazing visual/GE productions. They have to. That's usually the only way.

Sure, you can point to a year like 2002 when the Cavaliers won most captions, or Cadets in 2005, but that's rare. How often does a corps, any corps, beat BD in brass and percussion in the same year, or brass and guard, or guard and percussion, or marching ex and brass? And when it happens it's rare, but it also means that corps has a legitimate shot at beating BD.

LET'T TALK WORKING HARD

I also saw some discussion about which corps works the hardest earlier in this thread. Honestly, who really knows? It's probably some Open Class corps with minimal talent due to age and experience where you have a bunch of kids fighting to learn a show, the music, and to sell it to the fans. They struggle more so than do the older, more accomplished musicians who have better motor skills for marching. I never worked so hard in my life as I did when I was 12 and 13 marching in a competitive youth band while trying to keep up with older members who were kicking my arse. :-)

Does BD work hard? You bet. Do the Cadets and Cavaliers? You bet. Each has a system, each has to do what is needed to mature their show and to present the music. In fairness to the Cadets, I think it is safe to say that their shows have a high-level of demand. Often times more than other corps. Their rehearsal schedule is the result of that demand. Same with Cavaliers. Now, demand for demand's sake is not always productive or good, and unless you can clean come Finals the judges will not give you credit just because it's hard. It has to be hard, meaningful, effective, and clean in order to max-out your score.

I think the Blue Devils are the best at finding just the right amount of demand, GE, and musicianship, and putting it together in a product that can truly be cleaned come Finals. That's how you win. If a corps like the Cadets hit a home run with a show like Angles and Demons then so be it, but we often do not see such obvious design mastery where we can say "if that gets remotely clean, it's over." Phantom 2008 comes to mind. The Cavaliers 2006 Machine show comes to mind. Their 2002 show as well. The Cadets 2000 Disney Celebration show was an instant classic.

Edited June 5, 2013 by jwillis35

[Jeff Ream]

On the other hand, isn't he the only Corps Director in DCI history to win 10 times? Other than BD's Wayne Downey, that consistency is unparalleled.

(And to those who downplay the competition in Drum Corps, rings might not be the total end result, but when was the last time SCV figured into this kind of discussion? They're the only corps to make Finals every year, yet they've been off the championship radar since that overrated 2004 show.)

He is.....only because Gibbs didn't run BD in the 70's and early 80's. But, go look at the 2007 recap....performance captions costCadets the ring that year. Why? because they were so focused on his 'message", that performance suffered.

[Jeff Ream]

In general I'd say the Cadets shows tend to fully mature much later in the season, often due to the demand it takes to clean them.

In 2011 they opened in 4th place. Then 2nd the next night. Then they went on to beat BD at every show out west. So they were certainly no surprise early in 2011. During the Cinecast of the first two shows you can hear Rondinero say "The Cadets will be heard from this season." No they didn't dominate all season. That show was too demanding and too spread over the field in such an intricate way for them to dominate so early, but it was clear which show had the most potential to take Worlds.

In 2005 they were certainly strong, but also a very difficult show and it needed time to gel and clean.

In 2000 they were dominant right out of the gate. 1 tie, no losses.

In 1998 they were fairly dominant that year. They might have lost 3 or 4 shows total.

In 1993 it was a two-horse race between Cadets and Star. I still would have given that title to Star, but Cadets were certainly no slouch.

In 1990 The Cadets were a solid top 3 or 4 from the opening of the season. The odd thing about 1990 was that all of the top 6 corps had major victories during the season. BD and Phantom started undefeated until mid-season, then the Cavaliers toppled both. Star started over Cadets on the east, but then the Cadets put in their ending and ultimately it was Cadets and Cavaliers in the top 2, with Star establishing themselves as the Brass monsters.

In 1987 it was a two-horse race between the Cadet (Garfield) and SCV. Cadets lost a few shows early, but quickly became the dominant corps from the east.

In 1985 the Cadets were top 2 most of the season if you look at the scores. SCV was the no. 1 seed if you will, but Cadets were top 2 all year and pulled off the victory in the end.

In 1984 the Cadets maybe lost 2 or 3 shows all year. One to Phantom, and 1 or 2 to BD. That's about it.

In 1983 they were the dominant corps out of the gate.

WHAT DOES THIS TELL US?

1. Typically the Cadets are in the top 3 or 4 out of the gate on their championship years.

2. They were more dominant in the 80s where their first 4 championships saw them come out of the gate top 2 in each of those years.

3. 1990 was an interesting year in which 6 corps looked to have potential championship seasons come the beginning of tour. Once the GE captions began to sparkle for the Cadets and Cavaliers that race was narrowed to 2.

4. In 1993 they were top 2 from the start, and in 1998 they were top 3 from the start

5. In 2000 they reminded us of the 1983/84 corps and came out roaring.

if you look at 85 and 87, you see SCV had some spreads on them at Allentown, only to see Cadets come back and win it all 2 weeks later. as for 93, I don't believe Cadets got Star until the end.

[charlie1223]

He is.....only because Gibbs didn't run BD in the 70's and early 80's. But, go look at the 2007 recap....performance captions costCadets the ring that year. Why? because they were so focused on his 'message", that performance suffered.

Yes, and any other outside factors that could have transpired would've tarnished the subjectivity of the judges...

Edited June 5, 2013 by charlie1223

[drilltech1]

Yes, and any other outside factors that could have transpired would've tarnished the subjectivity of the judges...

Are you referring to "Hashgate" or something else?

Both having witnessed the corps on the field for performance and then being pulled off, the penalty assessment, the review, the booing from a segment of the local crowd, the tensions resulting all must have had some affect on the performers who still gave a great performance which was judged to be just not enough and effectively gave them second place; and second, having spoken at depth with many of the corps members after and since who feel their edge had lost its bite and that they had to regenerate their emotional motivations.. As much as we like to think we train kids to be almost robotic in consistency for performance mindset, the performers are still humans who experience feelings, ups and downs.

Edited June 5, 2013 by drilltech1

[2000Cadet]

In general I'd say the Cadets shows tend to fully mature much later in the season, often due to the demand it takes to clean them.

In 2011 they opened in 4th place. Then 2nd the next night. Then they went on to beat BD at every show out west. So they were certainly no surprise early in 2011. During the Cinecast of the first two shows you can hear Rondinero say "The Cadets will be heard from this season." No they didn't dominate all season. That show was too demanding and too spread over the field in such an intricate way for them to dominate so early, but it was clear which show had the most potential to take Worlds.

In 2005 they were certainly strong, but also a very difficult show and it needed time to gel and clean.

In 2000 they were dominant right out of the gate. 1 tie, no losses.

In 1998 they were fairly dominant that year. They might have lost 3 or 4 shows total.

In 1993 it was a two-horse race between Cadets and Star. I still would have given that title to Star, but Cadets were certainly no slouch.

In 1990 The Cadets were a solid top 3 or 4 from the opening of the season. The odd thing about 1990 was that all of the top 6 corps had major victories during the season. BD and Phantom started undefeated until mid-season, then the Cavaliers toppled both. Star started over Cadets on the east, but then the Cadets put in their ending and ultimately it was Cadets and Cavaliers in the top 2, with Star establishing themselves as the Brass monsters.

In 1987 it was a two-horse race between the Cadet (Garfield) and SCV. Cadets lost a few shows early, but quickly became the dominant corps from the east.

In 1985 the Cadets were top 2 most of the season if you look at the scores. SCV was the no. 1 seed if you will, but Cadets were top 2 all year and pulled off the victory in the end.

In 1984 the Cadets maybe lost 2 or 3 shows all year. One to Phantom, and 1 or 2 to BD. That's about it.

In 1983 they were the dominant corps out of the gate.

WHAT DOES THIS TELL US?

1. Typically the Cadets are in the top 3 or 4 out of the gate on their championship years.

2. They were more dominant in the 80s where their first 4 championships saw them come out of the gate top 2 in each of those years.

3. 1990 was an interesting year in which 6 corps looked to have potential championship seasons come the beginning of tour. Once the GE captions began to sparkle for the Cadets and Cavaliers that race was narrowed to 2.

4. In 1993 they were top 2 from the start, and in 1998 they were top 3 from the start

5. In 2000 they reminded us of the 1983/84 corps and came out roaring.

Wow! Thanks for the history lesson!!

[Jeff Ream]

Yes, and any other outside factors that could have transpired would've tarnished the subjectivity of the judges...

you mean like having issues in the performance captions during the season?

I mean you think the drum judge is going to penalize their score for hashgate? the perc judges tape on the dvd says it all. Outside of effect, really they consistently ranked 2-4 in the captions. outside of 1/2 shows before finals, BD pretty much had them...Cadets were third at San Antonio. Look at Atlanta a month earlier....

recaps on From the Pressbox.com back me up