Crown's 2013 show "E=mc2"

[Pete Freedman]

I haven't read through the whole thread, so forgive me if what I say has already been covered. This is solely my interpretation, not from the designers or anything. E=mc2 is obviously Einstein's most famous contribution to science and plays into innovation, risk-taking, discovery, etc. The Einstein thing is covered completely by having "Einstein on the Beach" as a backdrop for the whole program. (All the counting, narration, etc. is from that piece). Hope that helps. Really just an exciting, impacting show to sit back and enjoy.

Yes, but the fact that they are using a piece called Einstein on the Beach does not justify the various elements of the piece that are included, since this is a judged activity. For many, the park bench part is essentially meaningless as it relates to Einstein. The fact that Glass had some meaning in mind doesn't mean the judges should just throw up their hands and say, "Yes, it helps your score, because Glass is an artist, and therefore it's meaningful." We don't know what is happening in the judges meetings, but from the outside it sure looks like that's what the judges are doing.

To put it another way, if it weren't in Glass' piece. If Crown just put it in on their own without explanation, leaving the relevance to Einstein up the the judges' interpretation, I think they'd be mystified. So what's the difference?

[garfield]

Yes, but the fact that they are using a piece called Einstein on the Beach does not justify the various elements of the piece that are included, since this is a judged activity. For many, the park bench part is essentially meaningless as it relates to Einstein. The fact that Glass had some meaning in mind doesn't mean the judges should just throw up their hands and say, "Yes, it helps your score, because Glass is an artist, and therefore it's meaningful." We don't know what is happening in the judges meetings, but from the outside it sure looks like that's what the judges are doing.

To put it another way, if it weren't in Glass' piece. If Crown just put it in on their own without explanation, leaving the relevance to Einstein up the the judges' interpretation, I think they'd be mystified. So what's the difference?

Oh, I heartily disagree, and I wonder if you really get Crown's show yet (keep watching, you will).

I intentionally did NOT do any homework prior to this season. I didn't know EOTB (even though now I realize I had heard the opera in the past, and probably dismissed it), I only knew E=MC2 and the obvious reference, and the love story.

Yet, the point of the show was obvious to me at the outset, and I'd bet you a cheap lunch or stadium dog that the judges "got it" on the first viewing.

And in this case, the narration during the ballad gave they key to the real meaning of the show even if one hadn't gotten it in the symbol usage and love story.

Love was the only thing that Einstein's science couldn't prove. Yet, love can be never-ending. "Impossible, you say?"

The basic concept is so base human, and the choice of symbols and music is so clear, that there's almost no way that the show doesn't sell even if you'd never seen EOTB.

All of the elements in Crown's show (except percussion execution, so far!) are perfectly matched to the theme, or message, or point of the show. It's a brilliant design that's as simple and accessible to any viewer as we've seen since Angels and Demons.

And the most remarkable "element" in the show is that rotating 3D triangle pyramid. That thing will go down as having changed drill design as the Z-Pull and cross-to-cross. It's one of the most amazing drill designs I've seen in 40 years. And it fit the theme of the show perfectly.

[HockeyDad]

Love was the only thing that Einstein's science couldn't prove. Yet, love can be never-ending. "Impossible, you say?"

Einstein also couldn't prove gravity. He never did work out the theory of gravity he was working on. But I don't mean to quibble.

[garfield]

Einstein also couldn't prove gravity. He never did work out the theory of gravity he was working on. But I don't mean to quibble.

"It's impossible", he said.

:tongue:/>

[Pete Freedman]

Oh, I heartily disagree, and I wonder if you really get Crown's show yet (keep watching, you will).

I intentionally did NOT do any homework prior to this season. I didn't know EOTB (even though now I realize I had heard the opera in the past, and probably dismissed it), I only knew E=MC2 and the obvious reference, and the love story.

I had heard it before but misinterpreted the part that goes "these are the days" as a statement that we should enjoy each moment, each day, rather than accepting grinding daily hardship in a quest for big moments of happiness, marriage, birth of children, etc. However now that I've read the lyrics I no longer think it's about that. In fact it's another area where the corps should, IMO, be expected to explain their interpretation of these seemingly meaningless words, unless you believe "franky' is a word that relates to Einstein's inability to solve the problem of love.

http://songmeanings....22107858823375/

Yet, the point of the show was obvious to me at the outset, and I'd bet you a cheap lunch or stadium dog that the judges "got it" on the first viewing.

Some if it is clear, and some of it is clearly gibberish. "It could get the railroad for these workers." "It could get for it is."

It could be that Glass had a meaning for these words. It could be that he used the words only for their sound. It could be an obscure reference of his own. It certainly isn't clear what he mean't, and if you understood them as soon as you heard them, then it was your own interpretation, and it is likely to be different than someone else's. It is even less clear what Crown thinks they mean, or intends them to mean. If there are meanings, they should tell the judges what those meanings are. Otherwise they should tell the judges there is no meaning to those words and they are meant for their sound. That's fine, but DCI shouldn't let judges be put in the position of having to pretend they get something in order not to look foolish.

And in this case, the narration during the ballad gave they key to the real meaning of the show even if one hadn't gotten it in the symbol usage and love story.

Love was the only thing that Einstein's science couldn't prove. Yet, love can be never-ending. "Impossible, you say?"

The basic concept is so base human, and the choice of symbols and music is so clear, that there's almost no way that the show doesn't sell even if you'd never seen EOTB.

That is a fundamental concept, but it's hardly clear that either Glass or Crown mean it that way. I think Crown is leaving it up to the viewer.

Are you saying that because Einstein said that the speed of light is not infinite, and is the maximum speed anything can travel, Glass/Crown is inferring that he is saying nothing can be infinite? Love, for example? Did Einstein ever suggest that there's no such thing as infinity, or that nothing can be infinite? Does anyone ever infer this from his work? So saying that love can be infinite or can last infinitely long does not relate, even figuratively, to Einstein. In other words, Einstein would be shocked to think Glass was making such a statement about him.

But I don't think Glass was (necessarily) making such a statement. He was being intentionally vague.

All of the elements in Crown's show (except percussion execution, so far!) are perfectly matched to the theme, or message, or point of the show. It's a brilliant design that's as simple and accessible to any viewer as we've seen since Angels and Demons.

I think not. I love the show, but most shows do not contain elements that are debated as to meaning. Some do. This one is hotly debated, perhaps more than any other show.

And the most remarkable "element" in the show is that rotating 3D triangle pyramid. That thing will go down as having changed drill design as the Z-Pull and cross-to-cross. It's one of the most amazing drill designs I've seen in 40 years. And it fit the theme of the show perfectly.

I agree it's gorgeous. It's related to their move last year with the rotating cube, so they're establishing a signature move. Next year, a rotating sphere with meridian lines?

Edit: typo

Edited July 17, 2013 by Pete Freedman

[Pete Freedman]

I should also add that the judges may be ignoring the words for the most part. Music GE is a merging of Brass GE and Percussion GE, and therefore these judges are, I would think, judging GE brass and percussion together. I don't know the extent to which other instruments and especially voice are included by the rules. Do spoken words count as music for DCI GE purposes? If so, is it's weight proportional to the attention it gets from the audience (i.e. a very high weight) or simply as one performer (a low weight).

If spoken words are largely ignored by the judges anyway, the corps may feel they can do what they want with it (and as much as they want).

How does it work?

[George Dixon]

[/size]

I agree it's gorgeous. It's related to their move last year with the rotating cube, so they're establishing a signature move. Next year, a rotating sphere with meridian lines?

hopefully this year they will get it clean

[garfield]

[/size]

I had heard it before but misinterpreted the part that goes "these are the days" as a statement that we should enjoy each moment, each day, rather than accepting grinding daily hardship in a quest for big moments of happiness, marriage, birth of children, etc. However now that I've read the lyrics I no longer think it's about that. In fact it's another area where the corps should, IMO, be expected to explain their interpretation of these seemingly meaningless words, unless you believe "franky' is a word that relates to Einstein's inability to solve the problem of love.

http://songmeanings....22107858823375/

Some if it is clear, and some of it is clearly gibberish. "It could get the railroad for these workers." "It could get for it is."

It could be that Glass had a meaning for these words. It could be that he used the words only for their sound. It could be an obscure reference of his own. It certainly isn't clear what he mean't, and if you understood them as soon as you heard them, then it was your own interpretation, and it is likely to be different than someone else's. It is even less clear what Crown thinks they mean, or intends them to mean. If there are meanings, they should tell the judges what those meanings are. Otherwise they should tell the judges there is no meaning to those words and they are meant for their sound. That's fine, but DCI shouldn't let judges be put in the position of having to pretend they get something in order not to look foolish.

Remember, I had not done any homework prior to my first viewing of Crown's show. I had no idea of the actual words that the voiceover was saying, and it didn't matter in the least. I think you're looking too deeply as Crown's performance being a literal translation of Wilson's work. The scientific/percussive nature of the voice over - not the literal words - is what makes the point. Science - science - science, rhythm, rhythm, rhythm, numbers, numbers, numbers. Love. The contrast of the show's construction matches the theme of both the opera and the music chosen.

That is a fundamental concept, but it's hardly clear that either Glass or Crown mean it that way. I think Crown is leaving it up to the viewer.

Are you saying that because Einstein said that the speed of light is not infinite, and is the maximum speed anything can travel, Glass/Crown is inferring that he is saying nothing can be infinite? Love, for example? Did Einstein ever suggest that there's no such thing as infinity, or that nothing can be infinite? Does anyone ever infer this from his work? So saying that love can be infinite or can last infinitely long does not relate, even figuratively, to Einstein. In other words, Einstein would be shocked to think Glass was making such a statement about him.

But I don't think Glass was (necessarily) making such a statement. He was being intentionally vague.

Again, I'm no scientist, but I didn't need to understand the work of Einstein, I only needed to know that it was scientific and mathematical which I could have gotten from just the show's title. The contrast to love is clearly evident. If fans, or judges, got only that much from the show, it sells. The infinity sign at the beginning clearly suggested that infinity's meaning is part of the equation, while the wording suggested that everything has a beginning and an end. Again, the contrast and conflict.

I think not. I love the show, but most shows do not contain elements that are debated as to meaning. Some do. This one is hotly debated, perhaps more than any other show.

Horse-head stick figurines doubling as coat racks. Yep, that sure was a clearly defined element of that show. :tongue:/>/>

I agree it's gorgeous. It's related to their move last year with the rotating cube, so they're establishing a signature move. Next year, a rotating sphere with meridian lines?

Edit: typo

No, their signature move is the crown, which we haven't yet seen but I'd bet comes in the ending. Connecting the physical cube that has, itself, 3 dimensions to a two-plane field design that becomes 3D only through the accurate execution of the MM's is reaching for a connection that is, in truth, only a coincidence. Geometric designs, even done well, only have significance if they are connected to the show design on the field.

[Jeff Ream]

I should also add that the judges may be ignoring the words for the most part. Music GE is a merging of Brass GE and Percussion GE, and therefore these judges are, I would think, judging GE brass and percussion together. I don't know the extent to which other instruments and especially voice are included by the rules. Do spoken words count as music for DCI GE purposes? If so, is it's weight proportional to the attention it gets from the audience (i.e. a very high weight) or simply as one performer (a low weight).

If spoken words are largely ignored by the judges anyway, the corps may feel they can do what they want with it (and as much as they want).

How does it work?

oh yes vocals count as well as any electronic sounds.

[skevinp]

.

Announcement: I will no longer take seriously anyone who says that Crown receives insufficient critical scrutiny compared to other corps.