perc2100 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 At finals 2008 BD was 1st in GE, Viz, Guard & Brass.........PR only took Percussion. So, yes....CC needs to pay attention or risk a similar fate. Phantom won GE Music (putting BD's GE win at only .05) as well as Music Ensemble. Cavaliers won Vis. Performance to help keep Vis spreads a tad tighter. Also, BD was 2nd in GE Music, 4th in Ensemble and 5th in percussion (i.e. a larger spread to Phantom). With BD & Cadets currently splitting 2nd placements in captions, that helps Crown out. Also right now Crown is winning everything else (which BD did not do in 2008), so Crown can lose by over 1.2 in percussion to BD and still maintain a healthy over-all win if tonights' caption spreads hold down the stretch. Still think the spreads shrink like crazy when/if BD can clean their program. BD is generally closer to Crown in rep (seems to be an average of BD behind .1 in rep and .2 in performance subs), so they have a bit more room to improve in performance, which tends to help design subs raise once intent is crystal clear to the judges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 the writing seems lacking. it just doesnt seem up to par with everyone else's books. last year, stuff I saw dirty in July was still dirty in August. if that carries over to ensemble, it could be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I can understand that you aren't happy if a judge ties subcaptions, but what if the 2 corps are close to identical in difficulty and performance level? I would much rather see a tie in a subcaption if the judge truly believe each corps is equal. I think sometimes in that case that the judge would give the edge to the corps with the name/reputation, which really would not be fair to the other corps. I can see that, but I find it really hard to believe that this 'early' in the season there is zero difference between execution or book. To me a subcaption tie kind of reeks of not-so-great numbers management, a judge being not 100% cognizant of the numbers he's writing down (i.e. gave someone a score and then didn't really pay attention to subs numbers when he saw that there was no tie overall), or just being a little wishy-washy. Yes, it is possible that there was zero distinction between SCV & Blue Devils repertoire, and SCV & Cavaliers execution. But multiple subcaption ties just seems lame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I can see that, but I find it really hard to believe that this 'early' in the season there is zero difference between execution or book. To me a subcaption tie kind of reeks of not-so-great numbers management, a judge being not 100% cognizant of the numbers he's writing down (i.e. gave someone a score and then didn't really pay attention to subs numbers when he saw that there was no tie overall), or just being a little wishy-washy. Yes, it is possible that there was zero distinction between SCV & Blue Devils repertoire, and SCV & Cavaliers execution. But multiple subcaption ties just seems lame. :withstupid:/> 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I thought his job was primarily to SCORE the corps. I have never understood the argument that a judge should force a score that is not deserved just to make one higher than the other. Within the caption, since they are added together anyway, breaking a subcaption tie might actually cause a caption tie and, conversely, awarding a subcaption tie might actually prevent a caption tie. And overall, artificially breaking a caption tie might cause a final score tie and awarding a caption tie might prevent a final score tie. In any case, it would elevate the significance of the caption over the others by artificially imposing a spread that isn't there. I've never gone through DCI's judge training, so I don't know what they teach to the judges. When I was trained in other circuits I was told it was about ranking. To me, at least, it makes sense that you start thinking numbers/spreads AFTER you make the distinction of who was better/where the unit falls in comparison to the others in your caption. You do make a good point about (paraphrasing) 'it's better to have a tie in subs than to go back and correct subs to avoid an over-all caption tie. And it IS often a difficult job judging (though for 7 groups early-mid season it's not that challenging), as a judge has a small amount of time to decide where a group's numbers belong box-wise + where a group belongs in comparison to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 the writing seems lacking. it just doesnt seem up to par with everyone else's books. last year, stuff I saw dirty in July was still dirty in August. if that carries over to ensemble, it could be a problem. Check this out, though: Even if Blue Devils beat Crown by a FULL POINT in Ensemble AND a FULL POINT in percussion, with current spreads in the rest of the subcaption Crown STILL wins by .35! It's funny to see the smallish spreads in the rest of the subs, and with a full point spread in TWO captions Crown is still in a more comfortable overall spreads than Phantom in 2008 Crazy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 What is it that Crown needs to do to improve their Percussion scores? I am sure the kids are very talented amd they workm extremely hard. Is it the instruction that they are getting? Is it the written musical book that they are given to play? What is it? It seems like every year we see this same thing, the brass achieving very high and the percussion is lacking far behind. It would seem that the music judges would reflect some of the perc weaknesses in their scores as well. I dont get it. Anybody wanna shed some light on this? Here's the funky thing as of right now/this season: Percussion is insanely stocked with talent in DCI right now. SCV, Blue Devils, Cadets, Cavaliers, Bluecoats all have really good books that they are executing pretty well (Crown is still beating Bluecoats currently; Bluecoats were 2nd last year at Finals). Crown can raise their game this year to best-in-corps-history standards, and STILL might end up in 4th or 5th because everyone else is just really damm good! also, FWIW, I think their book lacks depth and Crown's battery is just not executing well; heck, I've seen videos of them struggling to play basic ish warm-ups really clean in lot warmups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrownStarr Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 "The 'pit'? What on earth is a pit? You mean like a hole in the ground?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 How much does the front ensemble play into the overall percussion score? There is never talk of them, always the field battery. Can anyone clue in a non percussionist? It "supposed" to be equal 50/50 (battery and pit). But really 50% depends on just the snares and the other 50% is the rest of the ensemble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCHEZman Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Crown's percussion may be their weakest caption but its not the liability it has been and as long as the are leading GE, they will remain in the lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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