stop the corps folding

[Lead]

yet they do have a profit sharing program in place...

Which DCI 'sort of' has in the appearance fees that corps receive per contest... and the G7 wants to eliminate :)

[blueisola]

judging/scoring an art is substantially different than 'scoring' a measureable attribute; ie. speed, time, distance.

And yes we do like our scores. It keeps us more engaged than simply just entertained. Though doing away with scores may make for a more audience-friendly approach to programs.

[alumniof]

Did you hear the people cheering crowns victory at Finals? I don't think it's part of the problem if it invigorates people to support corps, attend shows and be active in the activity. Would pro sports or Olympics be better if they didn't keep score and just played for fun?

He said to score regionals and championships and eliminate the daily scoring except for the staff.

[perc2100]

I think instead of a spending cap perhaps DCI should continue to monitor member corps' budgets, spending, revenue, etc. When a corps is struggling (like Glassmen a few years back) it would be cool if Exec. Director assigned a 'mentor' director whose organization is running smoothly from a financial & organizational standpoint.

[13strokeroll]

Spending caps won't do anything at all to stem the loss of Corps if, unlike every other competitive sport in the world, we do not address some level of transfer rules. Its the big elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about it. Most tell us they don't want any reasonable and sensible transfer rules put in place. None at all. Ok, I get that. If theres little to no support for this, then thats that. But absent that, we're all just kidding ourselves here if we believe that the Cadevaliers won't continue to win over 85% of the DCI Titles the next 30 years just as they have for the last 30 years. A cap won't do much of anything at all, imo, to stem the loss of Corps either. But if DCI decides to try it ( doubt they would ), I 'd be ok with trying it. Whats to lose, when we're already losing more Corps than we're adding, and have now for 3 decades.

Although I support the concept of parity through reduced "free agency", I believe it remains the elephant in the room not because there are those that refuse to consider it, but rather the logistics of pulling it off are untenable. The basic fact that would ever undermine the prospect is that the members are actually a contingent of the paying customer - through fees, travel, training, etc - and that most are constricted by their own financial parameters. Even a whiz-bang snare from Idaho with limited resources will only have a small list of viable corps, despite the potential to play in the top 3. As much as we all would like to see him/her achieve their pinnacle, their financial reality severely diminishes the possibility.

Also, even though the NFL doesn't fit the cap model argument cleanly, ownership meets in a collective to decide what is best for the group as a sum of its parts rather than sole individual needs, although that of course plays into the equation. Thus, small market teams such as Green Bay and Pittsburgh are given the green light to broach more creative methods to succeed comparably to the "big boys". In a true dog eat dog environment, they would have both faded away 40 yrs ago. As it currently stands, they've got how many championships between them? Those two small market teams the country wouldn't normally give a hill of beans of consideration generates billions in revenue in merchandising, branding, cross-related advertising, etc which all organizations get a share. This is because the owners have realized that the health of even the smallest has bearing upon even the greatest and manages their affairs to preserve this and help it grow. Imagine if the current perennial 14-18 level corps had that same benefit. Jersey Surf, with their very creative approach to merchandising last year as 2015 World Champions?

Edited August 17, 2013 by 13strokeroll

[BRASSO]

P.S. While I'm on this....do we really need to have scores at every show? Is judging part of the problem or a problem? I know it's the one thing I heard in music school and when I taught band in the public schools was the hate on drum corps was not G bugles. It was competition. Calling it a sport or referring it as one does not work with Florida band directors. Going along with the above model, I'd like to go to scoring for the corps staff for the purpose of improvement and monitoring that improvement. Score the regionals. I don't know if the rating system (Superior, Excellent, etc;) would be the way.....but....it's really almost silly the scoring, isn't it to score every night. "Oh.....Crowns percussion improved 1 full point over night." Really? Whose point was the first and whose was the second? Nobody improves greatly from one night to the next in ensemble anything - especially at that high level unless it was bad luck/bad performance/oops thing. When I marched DCI, as soon as the first show was judged, very first one in June, I knew where the corps was slotted for that year. On night one, I knew it would be the middle of the pack, or the top 4 or the bottom 4. So.....what's the point? Where's the drama? Broadway shows aren't scored and they are performed well. Kids work hard. Parents and kids get worked up with the belief that the score is some relevant holy grail or even accurate. I think kids like it - to a point, but I also think zoomed out, judging is part of a problem. Parents, kids, band directors who influence these kids, heck...even what I see on DCP, get all wrapped up in scores.

I can't speak for others, but I 'd rather drive a cab, cut lawns, or paint houses in the summer or some such and make some coin than pay money to a Corps to do summer exhibitions. I'd have no interest in sleeping on gym floors, all day practices, riding on busses all night, criss crossing the country, etc to do performance exhibitions for 9 weeks. Competition is what got my juices flowing, not exhibitions, parades, standstills, seminars and such. Competition, scores and placements arn't inherently the problem in my view at all. But yes, slotting is uninteresting, systemic in Drum Corps, and at its core an activity growth killer. I do agree with you on that however.

Edited August 16, 2013 by BRASSO

[13strokeroll]

You said:

To me, that implies that as long as a corps has the money, it doesn't matter the talent or work ethic of the kids. And props are not synonymous with a championship.

2013 - no props

2012 - horses

2011 - no props

2010 - mirrors

2009 - chairs

2008 - no props

2007 - no props

2006 - no props

2005 - a door

2004 - no props

2003 - no props

2002 - no props

Sort of, except 2008 had a few small props - the pilum (spear) defined the hubbub around the whole program (of course aided by Spartacus' smarmy sneer).

[Freedom]

I can't speak for others, but I 'd rather drive a cab, cut lawns, or paint houses in the summer and make some coin than pay money to a Corps to do summer exhibitions. I'd have no interest in all day pracrtices, sleeping on gym floors, riding on busses all night, criss crossing the country and doing performance exhibitions for 9 weeks . Competition is what got my juices flowing, not exhibitions, parades, and standstills and seminars and such. Competition, scores and placements arn't inherently the problem, imo. But yes, slotting is uninteresting, systemic, and fundamentally an activity growth killer. I do agree with you on that however.

Never said exhibitions. And this sentiment is what separates drum corps from the public and therefore drum corps from support and money. And ultimately music education in the schools. Miami-Dade County Public Schools - the largest school district in the United States....closed down their All-County Band, Chorus, Orchestra and Jazz Festival. Lack of interest and support. The attitude needs to change of your feeders - the public schools - won't exist and there goes the demise of drum corps.

[MikeN]

Also, even though the NFL doesn't fit the cap model argument cleanly, ownership meets in a collective to decide what is best for the group as a sum of its parts rather than sole individual needs, although that of course plays into the equation. Thus, teams such as Green Bay and Pittsburgh are given the green light to broach more creative methods to succeed. In a true dog eat dog environment, they would have both faded away 40 yrs ago. As it currently stands, they've got how many championships between them? Those two small market teams the country wouldn't normally give a hill of beans of consideration generates billions in revenue in merchandising, branding, cross-related advertising, etc which all organizations get a share. This is because the owners have realized that the health of even the smallest has bearing upon even the greatest and manages their affairs to preserve this and help it grow. Imagine if the current perennial 14-18 level corps had that same benefit. Jersey Surf, with their very creative approach to merchandising last year as 2015 World Champions?

DCI is less the NFL than it is the Premier League - an open-ended confederation that's incredibly weighted toward the upper end.

DCI and the member corps could absolutely create viable NFL-style profit-sharing and equitable payments if they chose to, but it would require a sea change in thinking about the organization. It would require a static collection of stable business interests - with members knowing where their next meal is coming from, so to speak. And with stable finances, competitive balance is increased as the poor don't automatically get poorer...

Actually, the NFL model is more aligned to the G-7 than DCI, when you think about it. Competitive balance - 6 of the 7 G-7 corps have won a title in the last 15 years. Stable financials...

Mike

[BRASSO]

Never said exhibitions. And this sentiment is what separates drum corps from the public and therefore drum corps from support and money. And ultimately music education in the schools. Miami-Dade County Public Schools - the largest school district in the United States....closed down their All-County Band, Chorus, Orchestra and Jazz Festival. Lack of interest and support. The attitude needs to change of your feeders - the public schools - won't exist and there goes the demise of drum corps.

Well, the choice was made years ago, rightly or wrongly, for DCI Drum Corps to align itself very heavily with the schools Music Depts. Like all things in life, decisions do have consequences, some great, some good, some not so good, and some ultimately prove disastrous.

In my view, expressed on here in the past, the loss of so many Corps was in large part the adoption right from the beginning of the National Touring Model initiated and promoted by DCI. Corps wern't mandated to go criss crossing the country, but it was clear that if you wanted to move up on the totem pole, you'd need too. In retrospect, The NCAA Tournamnent Model of regional show winners ( and 2nd, 3rd placers with Drum Corps ) advancing only to the National Championship would have been a much better model to have adopted. It would have led to better stability, lower costs, regional rivalries, more parity, higher fan interest, better competition, and ultimately because of these things, sustained growth of the activity across the board. But regrettably, such a model was not adopted, and so here we are today where its predominently the costs of the national touring travel that ultimately is what has sent so many Corps to the Drum Corps Graveyard over the last 35 years.

Edited August 16, 2013 by BRASSO