garfield

George Hopkins - soothsayer

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We seem to be divided between those who believe the change is coming and wish it weren't, and those who think the change isn't coming and wish it were.

I do not mind changes within the activity if they are based on design and/or conceptual revisions. I do mind, however, changes based on the premise of being PC and that we may offend some of those who do not know or understand the drum corps activity.

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I do not mind changes within the activity if they are based on design and/or conceptual revisions. I do mind, however, changes based on the premise of being PC and that we may offend some of those who do not know or understand the drum corps activity.

Why?

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.

So, actually and so far, George Hopkins was dead wrong about the possibility that a societal shift in opinion regarding "weapons" would cause pressure on drum corps to do away with "weapons" to keep itself vital. In the 12 years since, anyway, he's been proven to have no prescience on the matter at all. :tounge2: )

( Reply ) : I would think so. The facts are that there is more firearm registration among the US populace... particularly among the female populace, from that of " 12 years ago ". The trend lines are unmistakeable, while we recognize the mentally ill and the evil among us that create these cases of senseless violence among the population.

Edited by BRASSO

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Why?

Why do I 'not' want change based on PC?

a) Everyone is offended by something; and those 'somethings' are so various that they range into the millions. Thus it is impossible to placate everyone by addressing those millions of various offenses.

b) No need to change the historical aspects of any competitive activity unless it is a design (or safety) choice, or it is something deemed illegal on a National Scale. I say national because if the issue is isolated on a local scale you can keep the aspects and just avoid any local governing area which finds objection.

c) Every poll, even the most recent polls, show that a very small amount of the overall population find offense to actual physical weapons themselves without placed in a context. And when placed in the context of 'obviously' fake or prop weapons such as squirt guns, rubber dart guns, plastic sabres, wooden rifles, etc... and they are used in an innocous manner within activities such as plays, musicals, movies , and marching shows the minority who object is even smaller. We are not talking destructive behavior, such as murder or other acts of violence, (in which even a drum stick could be the weapon of choice by the aggressor), or even the depiction of such violence, but just the innocuous artistic use of fake props in which the vast majority of folks in the United States find no offense whatsoever. In fact the school where the NRA shirt was banned backed off partily in response to the Dad pointing out that the HS Band uses rifles and not many, if any, were offended by the band.

d) Hypothetical example outside of the marching activity where a 'PC decision' would also be rather idiodic: If the Universal Cheerleaders Association decided to ban short skirt uniforms becasue some people, not all but some find those skirts to be too revealing when leg kicks and high jumps occur, and therefore they find those uniforms offensive and the UCA reacts by banning short skirts.

Edited by Stu

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Why do I 'not' want change based on PC?

a) Everyone is offended by something; and those 'somethings' are so various that they range into the millions. Thus it is impossible to placate everyone by addressing those millions of various offenses.

The impossibility of placating everyone is no reason not to placate anyone. I'm sure there are things drum corps could do that you would say they shouldn't.

b) No need to change the historical aspects of any competitive activity unless it is a design (or safety) choice, or it is something deemed illegal on a National Scale. I say national because if the issue is isolated on a local scale you can keep the aspects and just avoid any local governing area which finds objection.

It's not about whether they need to change things, it's about whether they should change things based on their own perception of changing times.

c) Every poll, even the most recent polls, show that a very small amount of the overall population find offense to actual physical weapons themselves without placed in a context. And when placed in the context of 'obviously' fake or prop weapons such as squirt guns, rubber dart guns, plastic sabres, wooden rifles, etc... and they are used in an innocous manner within activities such as plays, musicals, movies , and marching shows the minority who object is even smaller. We are not talking destructive behavior, such as murder or other acts of violence, (in which even a drum stick could be the weapon of choice by the aggressor), or even the depiction of such violence, but just the innocuous artistic use of fake props in which the vast majority of folks in the United States find no offense whatsoever. In fact the school where the NRA shirt was banned backed off partily in response to the Dad pointing out that the HS Band uses rifles and not many, if any, were offended by the band.

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Hmmm. My last point (a long one) didn't get posted.

First I asked for the poll you mentioned.

Then I said that while few object to guns in cop shows and westerns, if the characters in High School Musical or Death of a Salesman carried guns in their hands throughout much of the story just because it's traditional in movies and plays, I think you'd find some general objection to that tradition.

Then I said something about the fact that cheerleading squads should go ahead and make decisions based on PC considerations or any other considerations they feel to be in their interest. If the Cadets feel it is in their interest, then fine. If more members (and their parents) are attracted by the decision than repulsed, then it's a good decision.

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Why do I 'not' want change based on PC?

a) Everyone is offended by something; and those 'somethings' are so various that they range into the millions. Thus it is impossible to placate everyone by addressing those millions of various offenses.

b) No need to change the historical aspects of any competitive activity unless it is a design (or safety) choice, or it is something deemed illegal on a National Scale. I say national because if the issue is isolated on a local scale you can keep the aspects and just avoid any local governing area which finds objection.

c) Every poll, even the most recent polls, show that a very small amount of the overall population find offense to actual physical weapons themselves without placed in a context. And when placed in the context of 'obviously' fake or prop weapons such as squirt guns, rubber dart guns, plastic sabres, wooden rifles, etc... and they are used in an innocous manner within activities such as plays, musicals, movies , and marching shows the minority who object is even smaller. We are not talking destructive behavior, such as murder or other acts of violence, (in which even a drum stick could be the weapon of choice by the aggressor), or even the depiction of such violence, but just the innocuous artistic use of fake props in which the vast majority of folks in the United States find no offense whatsoever. In fact the school where the NRA shirt was banned backed off partily in response to the Dad pointing out that the HS Band uses rifles and not many, if any, were offended by the band.

d) Hypothetical example outside of the marching activity where a 'PC decision' would also be rather idiodic: If the Universal Cheerleaders Association decided to ban short skirt uniforms becasue some people, not all but some find those skirts to be too revealing when leg kicks and high jumps occur, and therefore they find those uniforms offensive and the UCA reacts by banning short skirts.

Good points all, imo.

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Then I said that while few object to guns in cop shows and westerns, if the characters in High School Musical or Death of a Salesman carried guns in their hands throughout much of the story just because it's traditional in movies and plays, I think you'd find some general objection to that tradition.

There could be guns in "High School Musical." At the end of the movie, when they all sing their finale and dance, there is a marching band in the stands. I've never noticed whether they have a color guard, but perhaps if there is a color guard there could also be rifles and flags.Are there any tween parents out there who know if the East High Marching band uses rifles?

And yes, I agree if Zac Efron puled out a revolver and decided to do away with Ashley Tisdale so his girlfriend could get the part, people would object.

Edited by Tim K

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Wow - you and noormy are cranky in here.

Mike

It's too often on these near political discussions on DCP that the flag is being flown upside down by the usual culprits. That's all.

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The impossibility of placating everyone is no reason not to placate anyone. I'm sure there are things drum corps could do that you would say they shouldn't.

The PC thing to do is to placate; and when you placate one you open up the can to placating the next, then the next, then the next... then you run across conflicts on placating some and not others, then those having 180 degree differences of opinion begin to bark, etc... and sure there are things in drum corps which I do not like, and even offend me at times, and I have voiced some opinions; but I am not a selfish sort desiring the activity to placte my wishes because I think that my views have more validity than others. Example: When BAC did their Core of Temptation show I thought it was at the edge of being too risque for family type of entertainment, however the guy behind me was yelling, "Take it off, take it off!". If you were the director of BAC who would you placate... me, him, or would you just do your own thing, say bru ha ha to PC, and let us sort it out in the stands?

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