Stu Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 The bottom line is that I guess I define my success. Not anyone else. I don't live my life to measure up to anyone's standards but my own. Interesting; so I take it that since success is defined by each person, you teach kids that if they want to define their own academic success, as opposed to the school setting the success standards, as having an overall GPA of 57% is fine and dandy? I mean they are defining their own success and should not be required to measure up to anyone elses standard correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I never stated, contended, or implied that those who have not won cannot become successful at other endeavors. What I did say is that those who have won something at a high level like DCI have an ‘advantage’ in interviews and career situation, not because they marched drum corps, but because they have already 'learned how to win' at a high level activity. have they truly learned "how to win"? Or did they learn how to perform their role to the best of their ability? See winning and performing to your max is not always the same. We see in sports all the time how teams can have great statistical days, but lose. Plus, so we're told, the focus to kids when marching isn't about winning or losing, it's about performing and growing as a person. I know how to win in this activity...been there as a performer, instructor and designer. I also know how to win in my chosen job field, and little if anything in my job has anything to do with what I learned in the activity. As a performer, I didn't learn how to win, I learned to play and march my best, and hey, cool, we won once. As an instructor, I didn't teach the kids to win, I taught them to play and march their best, and as a result, we won a few things. As a designer, it wasn't about the trophy, it was about challenging the kids and making them better musicians and performers, and luckily we got a few trophies out of that. None of that has done anything to help me in the real world. if anything, it may have hurt me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 have they truly learned "how to win"? Or did they learn how to perform their role to the best of their ability? See winning and performing to your max is not always the same. We see in sports all the time how teams can have great statistical days, but lose. Plus, so we're told, the focus to kids when marching isn't about winning or losing, it's about performing and growing as a person. I know how to win in this activity...been there as a performer, instructor and designer. I also know how to win in my chosen job field, and little if anything in my job has anything to do with what I learned in the activity. As a performer, I didn't learn how to win, I learned to play and march my best, and hey, cool, we won once. As an instructor, I didn't teach the kids to win, I taught them to play and march their best, and as a result, we won a few things. As a designer, it wasn't about the trophy, it was about challenging the kids and making them better musicians and performers, and luckily we got a few trophies out of that. None of that has done anything to help me in the real world. if anything, it may have hurt me. The youth perfoming with the University of Kentucky Basketball team, and the Ocean Side Baseball team, etc… certainly were taught 'how to win'; whether or not they learned it was up to each individual. And any entity which makes it a priority to not only have performers do their best, but to reach beyond their best to a level not thought achievable, to always strive to become the winner, to always attempt to become the best in the world (within the bounds of ethics, rules, and legalities), that is a very valuable skill to have learned when applying for, or engaging in, any career position. What can hurt in real life is if this manifests itself as 'win at all cost' to the point of being unethical or illegal. However, learning how to win certainly is a big advantage when going out into the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 The youth perfoming with the University of Kentucky Basketball team, and the Ocean Side Baseball team, etc… certainly were taught 'how to win'; whether or not they learned it was up to each individual. And any entity which makes it a priority to not only have performers do their best, but to reach beyond their best to a level not thought achievable, to always strive to become the winner, to always attempt to become the best in the world (within the bounds of ethics, rules, and legalities), that is a very valuable skill to have learned when applying for, or engaging in, any career position. What can hurt in real life is if this manifests itself as 'win at all cost' to the point of being unethical or illegal. However, learning how to win certainly is a big advantage when going out into the real world. except what did drum corps teach me how to win in the real world? I was part of a world championship corps, and I was taught to march my drill and play my drum to perfection. luckily for me and the other 127 people, we all did it well enough to win that night. But......what did I learn to help me win in the real world Stu? I didn't learn how to be a better husband or dad, I didn't learnhow to handle customers, who are uniquely different with different needs. I didn't learn how to get paperwork filed properly and compliantly, nor did I learn how to disclose pertinent information to my customers. While yes, I do drum on my desk from time to time, that's about the only part of drum corps that carried over to my day job except downtime when I play on DCP. Winning in drum corps doesn't teach one how to win at life.Some of the biggest winners on the field are the biggest losers in life....many times because they put drum corps before life. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) except what did drum corps teach me how to win in the real world? I was part of a world championship corps, and I was taught to march my drill and play my drum to perfection. luckily for me and the other 127 people, we all did it well enough to win that night. But......what did I learn to help me win in the real world Stu? I didn't learn how to be a better husband or dad, I didn't learnhow to handle customers, who are uniquely different with different needs. I didn't learn how to get paperwork filed properly and compliantly, nor did I learn how to disclose pertinent information to my customers. While yes, I do drum on my desk from time to time, that's about the only part of drum corps that carried over to my day job except downtime when I play on DCP. Winning in drum corps doesn't teach one how to win at life.Some of the biggest winners on the field are the biggest losers in life....many times because they put drum corps before life. Where did I ever state or imply learning how to win makes for a better husband or dad? I did not! Where did I state that learning how to win in a competitive activity like DCI will teach the ‘specific’ skills sets for a particular job like Aero Space Engineering? I never made that claim. But learning how to win via a competitive activity (whether football, basketball, or drum corps), and learning the tenacity to not only accomplish a task but to go beyond expectation, especially beyond your own expectation, to win, is something which is only taught by winners. As to how this is appled to real life interviews for career positions... Let’s say a company wants to hire a national sales rep and two qualified people apply for the position. One says in the interview, “I have always done my best but never put much emphasis into winning. That is why I decided to do things like perform with XYZ musical unit in DCI because they promoted the self-esteem of doing your best opposed to promoting the idea of continuously striving to become the best of the best within the activity; and I was never that interested in winning at competitive sports for the same reason. Thus I will consider myself a success in your company no matter how many sales I get as long as I am doing my best”. Then the other says in the interview, “I always attempt to not only do my best but desire to be a part of the best and strive to become the best at whatever I choose to accomplish. That is why I chose to perform with ABC musical unit in DCI; one that each year competes for a World Championship title. And that is also why I have chosen to apply for your company; because you want to be the best company in this business just like ABC musical unit wants to be the best at that activity. Thus I only consider myself a success if I am constantly on the path to being the best at sales and engaging with a company that wants to be the best in the world at their business”. Within that parameter, who will more than likely get hired? Edited October 29, 2013 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 and all one has to do is look up DCI and see that the applicant didn't win....so, then did they lie in their interview? As always Stu, you reach for the holy grail, but dig the hole to deep to climb up and get it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) But learning how to win via a competitive activity (whether football, basketball, or drum corps), and learning the tenacity to not only accomplish a task but to go beyond expectation, especially beyond your own expectation, to win, is something which is only taught by winners. As to how this is appled to real life interviews for career positions... But you only learn the underlined if you win? Hey Jeff.... did you know it's not possible for a corps to put a show together in 6 weekends? I'd call that going beyond expectations..... Edited October 29, 2013 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Where did I ever state or imply learning how to win makes for a better husband or dad? I did not! Where did I state that learning how to win in a competitive activity like DCI will teach the ‘specific’ skills sets for a particular job like Aero Space Engineering? I never made that claim. But learning how to win via a competitive activity (whether football, basketball, or drum corps), and learning the tenacity to not only accomplish a task but to go beyond expectation, especially beyond your own expectation, to win, is something which is only taught by winners. As to how this is appled to real life interviews for career positions... Let’s say a company wants to hire a national sales rep and two qualified people apply for the position. One says in the interview, “I have always done my best but never put much emphasis into winning. That is why I decided to do things like perform with XYZ musical unit in DCI because they promoted the self-esteem of doing your best opposed to promoting the idea of continuously striving to become the best of the best within the activity; and I was never that interested in winning at competitive sports for the same reason. Thus I will consider myself a success in your company no matter how many sales I get as long as I am doing my best”. Then the other says in the interview, “I always attempt to not only do my best but desire to be a part of the best and strive to become the best at whatever I choose to accomplish. That is why I chose to perform with ABC musical unit in DCI; one that each year competes for a World Championship title. And that is also why I have chosen to apply for your company; because you want to be the best company in this business just like ABC musical unit wants to be the best at that activity. Thus I only consider myself a success if I am constantly on the path to being the best at sales and engaging with a company that wants to be the best in the world at their business”. Within that parameter, who will more than likely get hired? I wonder what the question is that brings these answers? Something like, "How do you feel about winning?" I'd likely hire the guy who can answer a six-word question with a less than 15-word answer. Something like, "The view never changes when you're the second dog on the sled team". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I wonder what the question is that brings these answers? Something like, "How do you feel about winning?" I'd likely hire the guy who can answer a six-word question with a less than 15-word answer. Something like, "The view never changes when you're the second dog on the sled team". Guess my problem is I'm too deep in the nutz n bolts of IT work.... Last tasking I went after (still there) concerned lot of coding needed "like now" in two languages (one very few heard of). After 20 minute description of what the coding would do it boiled down to. Me: Sounds like my current task but don't know that other language... Boss: How well can you read other code and tweak it to what we need? Me: So cut 'n paste... beat it to death testing to get it to work... and then really learn it later... huh? Boss: That's about it <IOW - we're screwed> we can get you access to the system by Monday. IOW - nothing about how to win or making the workplace the best it can be (that's a given IMO) just a polite version of "can you do the bloody job". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I wonder what the question is that brings these answers? Something like, "How do you feel about winning?" Actual question I was asked in an interview for my first career position after finishing university, "How do you define success?" And I did present an answer similar to the one I just penned; and yes the person was impressed that I had chosen a ‘winning’ competitive corps; and yes I was offered the position; and yes I helped increase the revnue for the company; and yes I then moved on to another larger company becuase of their 'winning' success; and then I ventured out on my own business which is also on the path of 'winning' suuccess. I owe a lot of that 'tenacity' and learned behavior on 'how to win' via the experience I gained in drum corps. I'd likely hire the guy who can answer a six-word question with a less than 15-word answer. Something like, "The view never changes when you're the second dog on the sled team". Are you sure about the view? How many, um...., backside tails is the first dog vewing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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