old skool drmmr Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 but they're not entertaining... sloppy and dirty is never entertaining. both Bridgemen and VK did "fun", but they worked extremely hard at it, designed it well and were exceptionally clean... that's what made it fun and entertaining. by your logic McDonalds doesnt have to be good quality, just something to eat, regardless of how bad it makes you feel and look. oh, and dont overstate it by comparing them to a Lamborghini ... more like they are a Ford Focus "but they worked extremely hard at it" Are you insinuating that the Jersey Surf doesn't work as hard as other groups? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 but they're not entertaining... sloppy and dirty is never entertaining. Not entertaining? You could have fooled me, based on the audience reaction to their shows. Admittedly, Surf does need to bring their execution level up a notch or so... it's obvious from the scores they receive that they are not yet in the upper echelon of World Class corps... but "not entertaining"? Please. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percussionization Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 but they're not entertaining... sloppy and dirty is never entertaining. both Bridgemen and VK did "fun", but they worked extremely hard at it, designed it well and were exceptionally clean... that's what made it fun and entertaining. by your logic McDonalds doesnt have to be good quality, just something to eat, regardless of how bad it makes you feel and look. oh, and dont overstate it by comparing them to a Lamborghini ... more like they are a Ford Focus Okay so they are a Ford Focus for you now. Maybe not as carefully engineered as Volkswagon Golf or fast as a Mazda 3, but they can still be great fun. Sure, maybe a Golf and a Mazda 3 are better, and I would probably agree with you. Bridgemen and VK are better than Surf, but Surf is more entertaining to more people. It really depends on what you think entertaining means, because it is very different than mine, but you don't have to be good to be funny. Yeah, you can be very good and funny! Bluecoats did a fart in their 2013 show with their contra line and I found it to be very funny, Phantom doing Sparticus in 2008 was VERY entertaining, but I found Surf in 2012 to be more entertaining because they are funny. Playing Party Rock Anthem, sitting in lawn chairs, having the nost unique uniforms on the field, it is all to make us laugh. That is the type of entertainment I am talking about. One thing though, if you don't think Surf works hard, that is VERY wrong. They work just as hard as everybody else, just differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Bob Jacobs has been taking fire, for a long time, from persons with tons more gravitas than Mr. St. Sinclaire. Yet, in the face of direct pressure to exit, he's just put his head down and ground away for the experiential benefit of his marching members. That his "scores" (how are those defined in DCI anyway?) are lower than others is no reason to dismiss the effects on his kids, or on the crowds that throw babies at their performances. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Surf was never set up to race to the top ala Star. Surf was set up to give kids a place to march if they couldn't make the big guns. They know that every year kids may leave to go to greener, redder, bluer, marooner pastures. I mean in today's DCI, they lasted almost 20 years in Open Class. By the time they left OC and moved to WC, how many were still OC when Surf was born? Now as far as entertaining....well, i've NEVER seen allentown react to a corps in the bottom 3rd the way they did for Surf in 2012, or even last year which was not as univerally loved as 2012 was. They know they have budgetary contsraints that keep them from hiring the big guns. They know they aren't getting kids that could make the top dawgs. But they make it a positive experience, and even kids that have left Surf to go elsewhere stay loyal to the organization after they leave in other ways. Yeah they aren't winning. Performance does grow a little more every year, and it seems staff stability is starting to take hold which helps. I'll say this.....they have better market position than any corps outside of the top 12 except maybe troop and Crossmen. brand recognition the last two years has been huge....while yes, putting out a show MANY fine entertaining, and yeah, ok it's dirty. Cause guess what...if technical excellence was all you needed to be beloved by all, BD would get rousing ovations everywhere. Please don't confuse people getting up to stretch when they are done as rousing ovations. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Surf was never set up to race to the top ala Star. Surf was set up to give kids a place to march if they couldn't make the big guns. They know that every year kids may leave to go to greener, redder, bluer, marooner pastures. I mean in today's DCI, they lasted almost 20 years in Open Class. By the time they left OC and moved to WC, how many were still OC when Surf was born? Now as far as entertaining....well, i've NEVER seen allentown react to a corps in the bottom 3rd the way they did for Surf in 2012, or even last year which was not as univerally loved as 2012 was. They know they have budgetary contsraints that keep them from hiring the big guns. They know they aren't getting kids that could make the top dawgs. But they make it a positive experience, and even kids that have left Surf to go elsewhere stay loyal to the organization after they leave in other ways. Yeah they aren't winning. Performance does grow a little more every year, and it seems staff stability is starting to take hold which helps. I'll say this.....they have better market position than any corps outside of the top 12 except maybe troop and Crossmen. brand recognition the last two years has been huge....while yes, putting out a show MANY fine entertaining, and yeah, ok it's dirty. Cause guess what...if technical excellence was all you needed to be beloved by all, BD would get rousing ovations everywhere. Please don't confuse people getting up to stretch when they are done as rousing ovations. Pfft. Last line is funny. Edited February 20, 2014 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 but they're not entertaining... sloppy and dirty is never entertaining. both Bridgemen and VK did "fun", but they worked extremely hard at it, designed it well and were exceptionally clean... that's what made it fun and entertaining. by your logic McDonalds doesnt have to be good quality, just something to eat, regardless of how bad it makes you feel and look. oh, and dont overstate it by comparing them to a Lamborghini ... more like they are a Ford Focus ...but who won in several Drumline battle events this past year? It was the "entertaining yet sloppier and dirtier DLs" over the neat and clean lines... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Surf was never set up to race to the top ala Star. Surf was set up to give kids a place to march if they couldn't make the big guns. They know that every year kids may leave to go to greener, redder, bluer, marooner pastures. I mean in today's DCI, they lasted almost 20 years in Open Class. By the time they left OC and moved to WC, how many were still OC when Surf was born? Now as far as entertaining....well, i've NEVER seen allentown react to a corps in the bottom 3rd the way they did for Surf in 2012, or even last year which was not as univerally loved as 2012 was. They know they have budgetary contsraints that keep them from hiring the big guns. They know they aren't getting kids that could make the top dawgs. But they make it a positive experience, and even kids that have left Surf to go elsewhere stay loyal to the organization after they leave in other ways. Yeah they aren't winning. Performance does grow a little more every year, and it seems staff stability is starting to take hold which helps. I'll say this.....they have better market position than any corps outside of the top 12 except maybe troop and Crossmen. brand recognition the last two years has been huge....while yes, putting out a show MANY fine entertaining, and yeah, ok it's dirty. Cause guess what...if technical excellence was all you needed to be beloved by all, BD would get rousing ovations everywhere. Please don't confuse people getting up to stretch when they are done as rousing ovations. Well-said. On the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Well-said. On the money. thank. Bob J if you're reading, that'll be on Future Surf chick, size 3T please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Not entertaining? You could have fooled me, based on the audience reaction to their shows. Admittedly, Surf does need to bring their execution level up a notch or so... it's obvious from the scores they receive that they are not yet in the upper echelon of World Class corps... but "not entertaining"? Please. Obviously "entertaining" is subjective, and FWIW I agree that Surf hasn't really entertained me lately (only partially because of their lack of execution in comparison to most of the WC). There shows recently have seemed like pastiche, and that of an outdated style no less. As others have mentioned, Bridgemen were awesome because they executed well; VK was at their best when they were executing well. Aping the fun without the execution isn't entertaining for me personally (and the fairly empty seats on the Semis broadcast from last year seems to suggest there were plenty of others with a like mind). I know I'm at that weird age where I came into the drum corps activity when VK was on the downside of their existence and Bridgemen was but a memory seen by me only on videos (videos of INCREDIBLE drumlines) so maybe I'm not the target audience of those shows. Surf has had some good shows in past seasons, and I look forward to see what they do this year; they have been improving a little bit each year and I hope to see them kick it up a few notches again this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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