fsubone Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 i've given an example twice you've ignored. VK 88, Mystery tour 2...during the bullfight, the bull wins, rears up, then when he comes down, lifts his back left leg and "urinates" on the "matador. so as such, this shoudl then be as vile to you as this other stuff is. or the numerous deaths in many of Phantoms recent shows, hell even Spartacus 81 and 82. BD 06 doing the Godfather...celebrating organized crime? I could go on and on, but you'll ignore them because it destroys your argument. Or the Cadets with their demons in their shows. Those heretics! Same with Faust making a deal with the Devil in 2006 in Phantom's show. And the hunter having simulated sex with the fat lady in VK 92. Or Phantom 91 with Bacchanale, pretty much an orgy the music depicts. What about SCV last year? The French Revolution? One of the most violent times in their history, followed by 50 years of horrible oppression and violence. But they're putting it on the field without a guillotine, and showing it in a positive light. How was that design staff not burned at the stake for that one? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 you heretic! blasphemer! Devil worshipper! Dada lover! I know, such a terrible person for not instantly throwing my radio out of the car. I must support people vomiting on each other, and other despicable acts subconsciously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 'anything goes', 'perception is reality', truth is relative', 'we cannot project our own judgments on others' You are implying straw man versions of these ideas. Anything goes: Not literally. Anything goes that doesn't hurt anyone. Perception is reality: Not literally. The term reality has multiple senses. One is the objective reality. But the term is also used to describe our subjective model of that objective reality that we each have. Subjective reality. That kind of reality is indeed informed by our perception. You and I do not have access to the objective reality, only to our subjective versions. That's why perception informs subjective reality. It's the best we can do. Truth is relative. Objective truth? No. But we don't have access to that. Again, it's out subjective model of truth - subjective truth - that this refers to. It's all we have. We cannot project our own judgments on others. We can, should, and do project our judgments on others. But to understand someone's behavior, we need to seek to understand why they believe what they believe. Their subjective reality. These are not outrageous or amoral ideas. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 well until a drum corps has people puking on each other on the field, who gives a ####? I guess it was ok to you in 1988 when VK had the bull #### on the matador right? or does that too offend your sensibilities because it was "humor"? Just calling a spade a spade Oh, if it's funny enough it's usually worth it. I am reminded of the SNL Weekend Update in which Will Farrell proudly expresses his support for Ellen Degeneres pretending to be gay on her sitcom. When Norm MacDonald informs Farrell that Ellen really is gay, Farrell becomes queasy and...let's just say the apparatus up his sleeve worked extremely well. The kicker was Norm's um, act, and ad-lib after Farrell left. I believe Stu would not have approved. At. All. (Couldn't find it on the utoobs, though. I'll look again later.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCorps Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 From DCP! Credit to corpsband! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 i've given an example twice you've ignored. VK 88, Mystery tour 2...during the bullfight, the bull wins, rears up, then when he comes down, lifts his back left leg and "urinates" on the "matador. so as such, this shoudl then be as vile to you as this other stuff is. or the numerous deaths in many of Phantoms recent shows, hell even Spartacus 81 and 82. BD 06 doing the Godfather...celebrating organized crime? I could go on and on, but you'll ignore them because it destroys your argument. I gave a reply to shows like Spartacus, Godfather, Angels and Demons, Les Mis, earlier in the thread, in response to Guardling I do believe; so no need to repeat it here. As for VK 88, to me that falls in the category of the token flatulence which makes an appearance in many kids movies; and I have not found bathroom humor funny since I was in about fifth grade. So noi, I did not find it funny in 88. Corrupt, ehhhhh not really, just childish and immature. But I take it that you laughed hysterically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) You are implying straw man versions of these ideas. Anything goes: Not literally. Anything goes that doesn't hurt anyone. Perception is reality: Not literally. The term reality has multiple senses. One is the objective reality. But the term is also used to describe our subjective model of that objective reality that we each have. Subjective reality. That kind of reality is indeed informed by our perception. You and I do not have access to the objective reality, only to our subjective versions. That's why perception informs subjective reality. It's the best we can do. Truth is relative. Objective truth? No. But we don't have access to that. Again, it's out subjective model of truth - subjective truth - that this refers to. It's all we have. We cannot project our own judgments on others. We can, should, and do project our judgments on others. But to understand someone's behavior, we need to seek to understand why they believe what they believe. Their subjective reality. These are not outrageous or amoral ideas. Anything Goes: But in certain sub-groups, in their form of perception of truth and reality, the parties involved say they are not getting hurt or hurting anyone within their own anything goes behavior. What then? Society forces a different set of rules on them than they subscribe to? Perception is Reality: So if one ‘perceives’ they can jump off a building and float against gravity in their own perception of 'subjective' reality that is okey dokey. And what gives us the right to say that our perception of 'subjective' reality is correct in that... who knows, they may be able to float in their 'subjective' reality. Truth is Relative: We may agree here on something but just calling it different things. I submit that our perception ‘of’ absolute objective truth is flawed; I never contested that. But I do contest the statement that truth itself is relative. We cannot project: But a person who believes in the perception is reality, truth is relative construct and exhibits' behaviors accepted in a sub-culture but not accepted in a larger culture will always say to someone who disagrees with them, ‘How dare you judge me’. Edited March 20, 2014 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Anything Goes: But in certain sub-groups, in their form of perception of truth and reality, the parties involved say they are not getting hurt or hurting anyone within their own anything goes behavior. What then? Society forces a different set of rules on them than they subscribe to? ... Yes. Society has a vague consensus form of shared subjective reality, which is informed by evidence. The evidence proves the subgroup wrong, and they go to jail. Note that by subjective I don't mean random; just different facets on the same diamond of reality. Different degrees and forms of inaccuracy. That's why I think you're exaggerating the straw-man version of these principles. Those who use them generally don't mean the versions you are referring to. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I still think you're grasping at straws for something that doesn't currently exist. You think DCI designers are traveling down this path of moral corruption and debauchery, but can not actually provide hard evidence. Unless you can produce quotes from designers that they want to have people puking on the field and having "anything goes" on a field, then anything is just conjecture and fantasy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 To make this explicit (pardon the pun), what is the statistical probability that Core of Temptation caused an increase in some sort of actual vice behavior by a corps member, or a kid who may have seen it and been influenced by it? For all my whining, I have to admit that I can't demonstrate that the answer is zero. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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