Is Drum Corps a sport?

[Stu]

Figure skaters don't play music themselves in perforrmance. The music accompanies them in competition from a distance, off the competition ice. Its a big difference. If figure skaters attempted to blend the music world to their sport world, by actually playing a musical instrument in their sport,..

So, if that is the criteria difference you are presenting (that music accompanies them), then by diggers most all competitive winter guards thus engage in 'sports' because music just accompanies them in competition from a distance, off the competition floor.

[HornTeacher]

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10....

K.

1) Brasso -- I owe you an apology for me impertinent response. You were merely disagreeing with me. I should have acted more my age. I'm sorry.

2) Brasso -- If you will look at your earlier posting (the one of which all this started), you will see that I attached a "like this" to your post. I hate those...but consider them do be nothing other than a cyberworld indication of agreement. You will also find that I attached this before I responded.

3) I am not some innocent mamby-pamby who receives his vicarious thrills out of accumulating any number of "Likes" to his postings. If someone likes it...great. If it's the "other"...great, too.

4) That being said, I do stand behind some of the sentiments which I (rather impertinently, I fully accept), stated. I ENJOY the interchange on DCP. Would it appear "idiotic" or, dare I say it, "insane", to those in the outside world? Yes. However, would riding a bus back and forth across the country for 3 months of the year...sleeping on gymnasium floors for 3-4 hours a night...practicing in the summer heat for 6-10 (some for more, some for less, I grant you) hours a day...and PAYING 2 to 3 thousand dollars a year for this priviledge...appear to be "insane" to those in the outside world" Of course it would.

That's what make all of us on DCP just a little bit more special. Maybe we all can take just a little bit bit of pride in our "idiocy"...or our best-intentioned support of such.

In any event...my apology to you is sincere. Please accept it in the spirit in which it is given.

[BRASSO]

As a person with over fifty years as a marching member, a judge, an instructor, and as a spectator, in the community of drum corps I can honestly say that I haven't been entertained in more than a couple of decades.

Since you are a former judge in Drum Corps, we can all come to the agreement here that not a single DCI Corps would want you judging them in GE. ( haha!).. but that won't stop me from inviting you into this Sports Pub we call DCP for a cold frosty on tap if so inclined or if not, a soda.

Edited April 6, 2014 by BRASSO

[BRASSO]

So, if that is the criteria difference you are presenting (that music accompanies them), then by diggers most all competitive winter guards thus engage in 'sports' because music just accompanies them in competition from a distance, off the competition floor.

Oh brother... I did not state that music accompaniment by the figure skater in performance from a distance is a qualifyer.... I stated that the fact the music is not performed by the figure skater themselves in performance competition is the disqualifyer. Noone thinks that figure skaters will ever be approved for the use themselves of the playing of the musical instruments themselves in their performance competition in their sport. The sllly season here on DCP continues, as this place is going to drive the reasonable posters away, as the commentary that DCI is " a sport " is just plain silly, imo ( albeit with many of its DCI participants offering up considerable and indisputable athletic skills in performance, notwithstanding ).

Edited April 6, 2014 by BRASSO

[BRASSO]

In any event...my apology to you is sincere. Please accept it in the spirit in which it is given.

Ok, but get down on the ground and give me 50 pushups right now !!!

( haha)... really though, no apology from you is neccessary to me on what you stated above.. as I really see nothing at all that was problematic in what you posted on here. I'll accept your apology however as the gracious gesture that it is.

[Stu]

Oh brother... I did not state that music accompaniment by the figure skater in performance from a distance is a qualifyer.... I stated that the fact the music is not performed by the figure skater themselves in performance competition is the disqualifyer. Noone thinks that figure skaters will ever be approved for the use themselves of the playing of the musical instruments themselves in their performance competition in their sport. The sllly season here on DCP continues, as this place is going to drive the reasonable posters away, as the commentary that DCI is " a sport " is just plain silly, imo ( albeit with many of its DCI participants offering up considerable and indisputable athletic skills in performance, notwithstanding ).

And oh brother right back at ya.... Many people think it is silly to call figure skating a sport, to call half pipe snowboarding a sport, heck even to call auto racing a sport. Football player Donovan McNabb publically scoffs at race drivers and pit crews being called athletes. So, why is it silly for me, and some others, to consider DCI as sport when apparently it is not silly for McNabb to hold the opinion auto racing is not a sport? Especially when the physical and competitive nature of DCI, WGI, BOA, by definition, indicates that the activity is a ‘form’ of sport? This is just like the issue that all drum corps are marching bands but not all marching bands are drum corps. The 'sports' issue for DCI is also within that line of reasoning.

[BRASSO]

The 'sports' issue for DCI is also within that line of reasoning.

If those that are advocating that DCI be called a " sport " in " sport competition", is it logical to assume these folks will be ok when these participants in DCI "Sport "are booed, heckled, and jeered ? This is because having played as an 18-21 year older in team sports( yes, we traveled in busses, slept in flea bag motels that made us wish we slept on gym floors like we did in Drum Corps), I know we were booed and jeered and called names all the time on the road and away from home. If DCI is marketed as "a sport" and accepted as "a sport "( it won't be, but or discussion purposes only ), it would silly not to believe that these DCI" athletes" in "sport" competition would not, in due time, be likewise booed, jeered, called profane names, heckled, and so forth. Why would this be a certainty assessment ? Well for the simple reason that there is not a single 18-22 year old amateur playng in the college " Major leagues " in the upper echelon of their " sport " that has not be subjected to booing, heckling, ridicule, jeers, catcalls, etc... and from the moment they get off the bus in the parking lot of the stadium too. Do the DCP'ers on here that want this DCI thing in the summer designated a " sport " prepared to take all the good with the bad that this designation as a " sport " entails, or are they engaged in FantasyLand here, where they envision in their minds just the good of " sport " coming in alone, but not all the potential bad baggage that naturally would come in the future with this silly designation as DCI as highly intense, competitive " sport " ? Have these DCP'ers ( and others in the activity that want this to be designated "a sport )" actually thought this through ? Methinks, for too many of them, perhaps they havn't considered the full breadth of what this would naturally entail ( then again, this is ALL so silly, as DCI will never be deemed a competitive " sport ", imo )

Edited April 7, 2014 by BRASSO

[Stu]

Brasso: It really is a very simple matter; to just evaluate something as ‘it is what it is by what it is’ no matter what we want to ‘perceive’ it as being. Using the dialogue from the movie The Breakfast Club to illustrate this point:

Brian: “You wear tights?”

Andrew: “No; I wear the required [wrestling] uniform.”

Brian: “Tights!”

Andrew: “Shut Up!!!”

The actual truth of the matter is that the required wrestling uniform actually is Tights whether the wrestler, the coach, or the activity itself want to ‘perceive’ it differently.

And all definitions of 'sport' describe the many facets of competitive drum corps whether the performer, the instructor, the judge, or the activity itself want to ‘perceive’ it differently.

[fsubone]

Well, here you go again making judgement assessments on what was " good and better " about today, as compared to BITD.. One read of my comments above and its clear that in my pointing out the " differences " I never got into a judgement assessment ( as you just did here " about what was bad about BITD.", and " better about today " You should not have replied to me with an assessment evaluation comparison on what was" bad" and what was" good "in comparison to then and now, as my reply now narturally must reply in what was " good " and what was " bad ", and what should have been left behind, and perhaps what might have been considered for retention.

Wow, way to cherry pick and twist my words, thanks. Are you possibly a defense attorney, or a politician in real life? From a liability standpoint, things are better for kids today. Not having kids travel privately to shows lowers the risk of any potential car accident, and not having to push buses means less chance of an injury for the members. That's what I said. Not what you thought I said, or tried to twist my words to say. Drum corps is a safer activity now on the whole.

[jjeffeory]

Brasso: It really is a very simple matter; to just evaluate something as ‘it is what it is by what it is’ no matter what we want to ‘perceive’ it as being. Using the dialogue from the movie The Breakfast Club to illustrate this point:

Brian: “You wear tights?”

Andrew: “No; I wear the required [wrestling] uniform.”

Brian: “Tights!”

Andrew: “Shut Up!!!”

The actual truth of the matter is that the required wrestling uniform actually is Tights whether the wrestler, the coach, or the activity itself want to ‘perceive’ it differently.

And all definitions of 'sport' describe the many facets of competitive drum corps whether the performer, the instructor, the judge, or the activity itself want to ‘perceive’ it differently.

I'm a little surprised that you, Stu, and Brasso disagree on this issue. You tend to agree on so much.

I'm still on the fence about DCI being a "Sport" or "Art" ( I tend to feel that it's a bit of both), but I really think DCI takes aspects of whatever it likes to market itself. I'm not sure how I feel about them doing this in the abstract, but it's what it is...

The rest of this is not directed at anyone specifically; it's just some random thoughts I've typed on the keyboard.... Feel free to enjoy or ignore. Maybe it will help support someone's position or make up someone's mind. Maybe it's just some guy writing some stuff for amusement... Anyway, writing this out is just how my brain works...

DCI has been marketing itself using the "Summer Music Games" name sake forever, but doesn't using the term "Game" imply that DCI see itself as a sport?

'90

....with Sports Announcer Gowdy....

'92

....with Sports Announcer Gowdy....

'93

'93

(with Star tenor Dave Reese) ...same types of numbers as we would expect from very good athletes in the middle of a marathon.

'95

2005

....the word "athlete" emphasized in this tenor short (with Cavalier tenor Jordan Thomas) about the how physical this activity is...

2006

....the line that got me in this year's intro was "and to succeed in this sport" at :29.... ...also using the word "compete"....

2007

....more implication that their show is a "sport". Funny commentary that hints at each show's theme...

2011

So, if DCI has been marketing itself as a Sport isn't it a sport? There's no doubt about it that DCI has been doing this for at least 24 years...

Frankly, I doubt that we're ever going to get a consensus on much of anything here, especially on whether or not Drum Corps is a sport.

<tangent Rant>

My experience here on DCP lately has mostly been about dealing with contrariness or seemingly reasonable people who turn out to be be flaky people.

I don't mind people who disagree with one another as long as we're civil about it; I have more problems with those who start a conversation, but then don't follow through with ending a conversation for no apparent reason or explanation. Yes, they're still on DCP and are posting in other threads daily. It comes across as being flaky, rude, and reflects poorly on one's self. Fortunately I've only come across two of those types of people on DCP.

</tangent Rant>