MikeD Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 And in your experience, just what exactly is this specilaized " training " that DCI judges have with narration to adequately " judge " narration as to whether it is " used well " or " used poorly " ? I'll await this educational " training " they have emassed in this. I 'll readily accept without reservation the judges qualifications and " training " to judge " good brassing playing and poor brass playing, and everything else regarding the brass playing... as they have spent years developing this specialized skill in schools of music education that is quite intricate and quite detailed. But the " training " to " judge " narration ? I'm an open book to this. So please go slow, take your time, and explain to me and others on here what specialized and extra ordinary " training " these judges have had in their past for the " judging " of narration that sets them apart from the rest of us unwashed Plebians ? Its narration,ie, the spoken word, for heavens sake.. not fortissimo judging on a baritone segment or whatever that is being judged. Narration has its own tempo, rhythmn, dynamics, phrasing, pitch, etc...just like any audio performance. A GE judge would be evaluating the effect of narration no differently than a brass or percussion phrase. Do the words fit the mood? Does the visual package and narration go together? I don't see it as any different than any other piece of audio being performed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) A GE judge would be evaluating the effect of narration no differently than a brass or percussion phrase. GE judges have had years of educational training at the post secondary level in their chosen field of Music to judge music. Additionally, DCI judges have had decades long familirization with the judging sheets as to what they are to judge in the GE captions. Narration is different. Its relatively new to DCI ( at least to its current level of its useage in today's shows ). To my knowledge, there are no classes in the Music Education field that educates on the proper and improper utilization of narration in music show performance ( other than perhaps college speech classes ). Furthermore, to my understanding ( as I've inquired ) there has been no " training " among the current DCI Judges as to what to look for in the proper, and improper, utililization of narration in shows. Also, there is no mention anywhere on any of the current judging sheets as to what judges are to " judge " in the narration. There is in fact NO mention of the pitch, rhythmn, phrasing, dynamics, modulation, seques, etc.... nor anything at all re. the judging of this now all important component in many DCI show performances... And no current DCI judge is even in agreement as to even what they are being asked to be looking for re. the narration in these shows.. So... if you want to check on this, and can't accept my info to you and others on it... then that is your homework " training " for tonite. Go find out. As you'll quickly determine for yourself, that when it comes to the judges " training " on narration, there isn't any. They are all each just winging it right now... and it really comes down to their personal " liking it ".. or their personally " not liking it " for all these current DCI GE caption judges when it comes to their judgiing of a Corps narration component useage in that Corps show. Edited April 30, 2014 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 And in your experience, just what exactly is this specilaized " training " that DCI judges have with narration to adequately " judge " narration as to whether it is " used well " or " used poorly " ? I'll await this educational " training " they have emassed in this.While I'm particularly not a fan of narration per se, I view the experience as an example of either good or bad acting. I think it is quite easy for most of us to dicern between the two even though our taste may differ in this regard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) GE judges have had years of educational training at the post secondary level in their chosen field of Music to judge music. Additionally, DCI judges have had decades long familirization with the judging sheets as to what they are to judge in the GE captions. Narration is different. Its relatively new to DCI ( at least to its current level of its useage in today's shows ). To my knowledge, there are no classes in the Music Education field that educates on the proper and improper utilization of narration in music show performance ( other than perhaps college speech classes ). Furthermore, to my understanding ( as I've inquired ) there has been no " training " among the current DCI Judges as to what to look for in the proper, and improper, utililization of narration in shows. Also, there is no mention anywhere on any of the current judging sheets as to what judges are to " judge " in the narration. There is in fact NO mention of the pitch, rhythmn, phrasing, dynamics, modulation, seques, etc.... nor anything at all re. the judging of this now all important component in many DCI show performances... And no current DCI judge is even in agreement as to even what they are being asked to be looking for re. the narration in these shows.. So... if you want to check on this, and can't accept my info to you and others on it... then that is your homework " training " for tonite. Go find out. As you'll quickly determine for yourself, that when it comes to the judges " training " on narration, there isn't any. They are all each just winging it right now... and it really comes down to their personal " liking it ".. or their personally " not liking it " for all these current DCI GE caption judges when it comes to their judgiing of a Corps narration component useage in that Corps show. I'll say it again.Personally " LIKING" something is not the same as liking something within a show, one does not have to have anything to do with the other. A judge can " LIKE" something on how it relates to a program yet personally NOT care for it. If this is what you are saying when you say like or dislike then I get ya Edited April 30, 2014 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCorps Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) The premise that credentials in music give credence to music judges as credentials in dance give credence to guard judges works until you hit the point that drum corps becomes patently (not totally) unique in its delivery. Speaking while marchers manuever around football fields has no logical precursor as trumpet playing precedes trumpet playing while marching around. Truly, as with much GE, drum corps has become the experience/credential bestowing entity. We come up with some pretty unique things we consider to be "effective" and that's by virtue of the uniqueness of the medium. Dancers find guard rudimental. Musicians find hornlines rudimental. But sometimes, we do set our own standards. Judges are essentially the ones saying whether it's good or bad and much of that experience begins in marching band. However, to say that's based on what they LIKE only follows if we use Guardling's definition, not as in "I enjoy this but dislike this." Judges judge narration on the established norms of effect in the marching arts medium. This means a judge could hate narration but deam it to be used effectively according to these standards. I bet some even hate that they have to love it because of those very standards. Edited April 30, 2014 by CCorps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) As usual you carefully substitute words to change things to suit your post. Silliness indeed. Ya, right, as if you didn't attempt the foolishness that I was advocating that 12 year olders are qualified to judge DCI shows, simply because I commented that a DCI judge has no more specialized training in his background that automatically makes him or her more qualified to judge narration than many 12 year olds. You attempted to make the ridiculous connection on my comment to my advocating 12 year olders to judge in DCI. Thats an epic fail in an attempt at a connection. So don't blame me for your bad connection plug not lighting up your light bulb now. Thats YOUR bad connection at work that has you still in the dark here my friend.. Edited April 30, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCorps Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Ya, right, as if you didn't attempt the foolishness that I was advocating that 12 year olders are qualified to judge DCI shows, simply because I commented that a DCI judge has no more specialized training in his background that automatically makes him or her more qualified to judge narration than many 12 year olds. You attempted to make the ridiculous connection that is the epic fail. So don't blame me for your connection plug not lighting up your bulb now. Thats your bad connection at work here my friend, not mine. You kind of did say a 12 year old could do it. I get exactly what you're saying but I think the perception of your wording is better reflected in his response than your rebuttal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) While I'm particularly not a fan of narration per se, I view the experience as an example of either good or bad acting. I think it is quite easy for most of us to dicern between the two even though our taste may differ in this regard. The only thing I might add to this, is that judging the acting in a play does require some level of experience with both good and bad acting. In DCI, the judges are not judging the acting profiency of those spoken words. Their judging is much simpler... can they hear the words ? Do they like spoken words surrounding the music ?. Something a 12 year old could do.. as he or she has workable hearing ears too. DCI judges , to my knowledge, have not told the script writers in the DCI Narration to change the wording of the script. Its not an acting gig, and the judges are not drama coaches, and they are not advising the narrator creators on any aspect of spoken words being narrated for potentially better " narration " either. The DCI judges either like the narration surrounding the music, or they don't. My hunch.. just a hunch... most of the judges punt the ball on the narration segment, and simply judge what they are trained in, ie the music, the percusiion, the guard, and its intergration and such. But who knows. Edited April 30, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Judges judge narration on the established norms of effect in the marching arts medium. Most educationally trained( and for Corpsband... " experienced " ) Musicians in Marching Music have rather uniformly agreed to standards on what consitutes " good brass playing ", and conversely " by comparison " bad, or subpar brass playing" re. techniques and quality, and so forth. I think we are only kidding ourselves however if we believe that the marching band community and/ or the DCI judging community have, by comparison, come even remotely close to a uniformity of agreement on what consitutes " good narration " and what constitutes " bad, or supar narration ". As such,, as near as I can tell, unlike the well established norms in brass or percussion playing, there are NO established, agreed to norms within the marching arts realm regarding narration in these shows. Edited April 30, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCorps Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Most educationally trained( and for Corpsband... " experienced " ) Musicians in Marching Music have rather uniformly agreed to standards on what consitutes " good brass playing ", and conversely " by comparison " bad, or subpar brass playing" re. techniques and quality, and so forth. I think we are only kidding ourselves however if we believe that the marching band community and/ or the DCI judging community have, by comparison, come even remotely close to a uniformity of agreement on what consitutes " good narration " and what constitutes " bad, or supar narration ". As such,, as near as I can tell, unlike the well established norms in brass or percussion playing, there are NO established, agreed to norms within the marching arts realm regarding narration in these shows. Perhaps they're being forged currently. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.