Fran Haring Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Because there were FAR more marchers doing Drum Corps back in the day, I think we should be able to agree that there were BOTH more equally talented numbers of marchers BITD as well as much less talented marchers BITD doing Drum Corps. Absolutely... I understand your point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Ok I've thought a lot about this from another thread, so I thought I would see what you thought? Is it tougher to make finals now or in the past 70s, 80s, 90s.... I can't help but wonder where my beloved 97 and 98 BKnights would've placed nowadays.... Realistic- no and I know the equipment advantages of now, but competitively drum corps now may be the most competitive ever!! Wes P I think talent-wise Top 12 now is FAR more talented than even 15 years ago, let alone 80s or 70s. Corps now are not only attempting more, but they are achieving more. And IMO characteristic brass sound in general is SIGNIFICANTLY better than it ever was with G-keyed brass. But that wasn't really the question, right? There were more corps competing for finals in the 70's and 80's, so maybe one could make the argument you had to beat more corps to make finals and thus is was harder to make finals. I know in 1989 if a Div. 2 corps made Top 25, it was a HUGE deal, but now-a-days placing 25th feels like not-so-big-a-deal. I think in 2013 there were 22 WC corps, so Finals = more than 50% of the field. In 1983 there were 37 corps who competed in WC Prelims (dunno how many might've been A or A60), so to make Top 12 you had to beat significantly ore corps. But, I guess I'll say this: any corps from 2013 Top 12 would've easily made Finals in 1983 I don't think many corps in 1983 would make 2013 Finals It is apples to oranges, so this is all just fun talk, but I think corps now are easily more talented than when I marched in the late 1990's, and significantly more talented than 80s and earlier. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 There were more corps competing for finals in the 70's and 80's, so maybe one could make the argument you had to beat more corps to make finals and thus is was harder to make finals. I have never really bought into that idea. If you look at scores from the 70's, for instance, once you got below 13th or 14th place, much of the time the remaining corps were not even remotely in contention for 12th, let alone higher. Even pre-DCI, when you look at some of the prelim shows at VFW's or World Open, for instance, the competitive level dropped significantly after the top 10 or 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RContra Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 There's no doubt that the talent and achievement level is way higher today. BUT What we all need to keep in mind is that each generation contributes to the one that comes after. The 70s guys eventually led to asymmetrical drill and the pit in the 80s... their 80s performances led to the teaching of the 90s guys and increase in performance quality... who they taught the 00s kids... etc. etc. Kids these days could learn any show from the 70s and 80s in a week and get in clean within a month or less, but that's only because of the generations beforehand who've learned the craft and refined their teaching methods over the years. The cyclical nature of the activity is a great thing for music education. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 There's no doubt that the talent and achievement level is way higher today. BUT What we all need to keep in mind is that each generation contributes to the one that comes after. The 70s guys eventually led to asymmetrical drill and the pit in the 80s... their 80s performances led to the teaching of the 90s guys and increase in performance quality... who they taught the 00s kids... etc. etc. Kids these days could learn any show from the 70s and 80s in a week and get in clean within a month or less, but that's only because of the generations beforehand who've learned the craft and refined their teaching methods over the years. The cyclical nature of the activity is a great thing for music education. that is 1,000% true! IMO, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madisonscoutsfan Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I think that the quality of the finalists is different every year. In 2000 the whole top 21 was very strong and well executed, and the very next year you have what was IMO the worst top 5 (in terms of execution) since the 80s. every year is different. IMO, the worst years for quality were 1990, 1994, and 2001, with the best being 1991, 1999, 2000, 2005, and 2008. I think that each year has something very different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 There's no doubt that the talent and achievement level is way higher today. BUT What we all need to keep in mind is that each generation contributes to the one that comes after. The 70s guys eventually led to asymmetrical drill and the pit in the 80s... their 80s performances led to the teaching of the 90s guys and increase in performance quality... who they taught the 00s kids... etc. etc. Kids these days could learn any show from the 70s and 80s in a week and get in clean within a month or less, but that's only because of the generations beforehand who've learned the craft and refined their teaching methods over the years. The cyclical nature of the activity is a great thing for music education. Very true; each generation builds upon what the previous generation built. The great designers and teachers now were members themselves previously, who learned from great teachers of their era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) I think its easy to acknowledge that today's Corps marchers, particularly in the World Class Division, are doing much harder visual demand than say the 70's, 80's. The Corps level of velocity in the drills is way up today compared with the drill's visual demands of BITD of that era. The competiitive judged portions of shows are about 1.30 minutes less on average than BITD, but what they are asked to do in the demand area today during the judged portion exceeds what was being asked olf marchers in the 70's and all throughout the 80's, imo. Edited June 10, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RContra Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Every once in a while, the pre-show "non-judged" portions even contain serious demand. 04 Bluecoats has some awesome visual stuff going on, and Crown in 2010 brought some fantastic sonic and movement demand with their pre-show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Every once in a while, the pre-show "non-judged" portions even contain serious demand. 04 Bluecoats has some awesome visual stuff going on, and Crown in 2010 brought some fantastic sonic and movement demand with their pre-show.I've heard that after what many thought were very good pre-shows in 11&12, the BAC staff decided to include, what normally would be a pre-show, as part of the judged portion last year. But, I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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