zigzigZAG Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 I remember reading a lot of hand-wringing from Devils fans a few years ago, worrying throughout July that team blue lacked the demand to win the championship up against Cadets and others that year. BD went ahead and won anyway, and these boards were full of vitriol debating all the park-and-blow, the low bpm walking vs fast marching, etc. What is the Cadets show lacking? Why do so many think they will peak too early and get passed by BD, Coats, or Crown? Why do so many think that they "need to add a lot to win", as George Dixon said? You never want to see a Cadets drumline getting punked because they lack demand, but against Bluecoats (I'm a big fan of the Coats, btw), it seems their book isn't hard enough. The Cadets have had the best drumlines on average for the last decade plus, and that's been because they fly across the field and because no one has a harder book, ever. It seems the Cadets are doing something of what the Blue Devils have been doing for a decade - lowering the bar and going for clean, clean, clean. To me, that's not the Cadets. I'd like to see them push the envelope every year. I'd like to see them innovate. (But by "innovate" I don't mean the BOA "body movement" drek.) Besides the discussions about how to treat the narrator, what would you like to see the Cadets staff add? More difficult percussion book? Drill? Brass book? What specifically is lacking in demand? If you were on the Cadets creative team, what weakness do you see, and what additions/changes do you recommend? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 don't misunderstand my statement - I'm in no way saying the Cadets lack demand. I'm saying the corps has moved through the material given to them by the design team extremely quickly Cadets know how to max out a progam. I'd expect some additional drill demand in the middle portion, a few snips to speed things along a little, more stage time added for small ensemble/percussion, an ending added and a ton added to the guard book. Plus they have uniform changes coming for both the guard and the corps, show flags still to arrive - with all this they have a good shot at top 3 and/or winning BD also has a ton of demand. As does Crown. Effective is the question - right now Cadets are winning that aspect, time will tell and they still need to meet up with BD. Crown IMO loses that question right now. Coats need to add visual/guard demand. So with all that said Cadets could probably take the program as is and be top 4. With additions they have a much better shot of Top 2. With a lot of additions I'd think they'd be tough to catch - pending how they size up to BD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brichtimp Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Based on last night, I don't see that the Coats have more demand in their drum book than Cadets. Talent levels look comparable, so I really think that pristine execution can still win the day; and neither line is pristine yet. I also noted a healthy chunk of time last night where the Coats line is silent....lots of factors in the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Never count the Cadets out the last couple weeks. They are very dangerous at the end of season. I seriously can't pay attention to that show. The narration is so distracting and annoying that I find their show barely watchable. When that guy does shut up I love their show. I love modern drum corps but narration is one thing I DO NOT LIKE! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Never count the Cadets out the last couple weeks. They are very dangerous at the end of season. I seriously can't pay attention to that show. The narration is so distracting and annoying that I find their show barely watchable. When that guy does shut up I love their show. I love modern drum corps but narration is one thing I DO NOT LIKE! Have you seen the show live? 90% of it has zero narration - just a few quick statements mostly while the corps is transitioning to the next tune or visually... I hated the idea of the show, but watching it really is effective 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Based on last night, I don't see that the Coats have more demand in their drum book than Cadets. Talent levels look comparable, so I really think that pristine execution can still win the day; and neither line is pristine yet. I also noted a healthy chunk of time last night where the Coats line is silent....lots of factors in the mix. Coat's book is definitely more difficult than the Cadets, particularly in the front ensemble. This might be the best front Bluecoats have ever had. The breadth of vocabulary being explored in both sections is possibly more varied than anyone out there. They are also achieving it at a higher level than Cadets at the moment. Don't get me wrong. The Cadets are fantastic, but Jeff Prosperie's numbers last night say a lot. He had Coats up 3 points in comp, and a point in achievement. If both programs get to complete clarity, Coats win out on the comp number. As for the overall shows, I think (in many cases) the people who complained about lack of demand from the Devils a few years ago weren't recognizing the non traditional demands being put on the performers in terms of presence, body movement etc. Sure, they had less run and gun than some other corps, but that's not the only way to generate demand. Cadets have a lot of demand in their show. It will be interesting to see how things develop over the next few weeks. I think where the "its not hard enough" argument comes from is that they are already very clean. This can be a liability down the road, but its hard to say what further clarity will reveal in terms of compositional demand. As someone else said, there's more in play than just number of notes. George, I'd actually argue that the Coats need visual clarity more at the moment. They don't execute as well visually yet as other corps, and I'm wondering how much demand we might be missing due to that lack of execution. They did just change visual staff/style. In general, its a good year for drum corps. I don't think I've seen a single show I haven't enjoyed. Can't wait to see how everything stacks up at the first regional. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzigZAG Posted June 29, 2014 Author Share Posted June 29, 2014 (edited) Coat's book is definitely more difficult than the Cadets, particularly in the front ensemble. This might be the best front Bluecoats have ever had. The breadth of vocabulary being explored in both sections is possibly more varied than anyone out there. They are also achieving it at a higher level than Cadets at the moment. Don't get me wrong. The Cadets are fantastic, but Jeff Prosperie's numbers last night say a lot. He had Coats up 3 points in comp, and a point in achievement. If both programs get to complete clarity, Coats win out on the comp number. As for the overall shows, I think (in many cases) the people who complained about lack of demand from the Devils a few years ago weren't recognizing the non traditional demands being put on the performers in terms of presence, body movement etc. Sure, they had less run and gun than some other corps, but that's not the only way to generate demand. Cadets have a lot of demand in their show. It will be interesting to see how things develop over the next few weeks. I think where the "its not hard enough" argument comes from is that they are already very clean. This can be a liability down the road, but its hard to say what further clarity will reveal in terms of compositional demand. As someone else said, there's more in play than just number of notes. George, I'd actually argue that the Coats need visual clarity more at the moment. They don't execute as well visually yet as other corps, and I'm wondering how much demand we might be missing due to that lack of execution. They did just change visual staff/style. In general, its a good year for drum corps. I don't think I've seen a single show I haven't enjoyed. Can't wait to see how everything stacks up at the first regional. Body movement in general is not as hard as running backwards diagonally across the field and playing difficult horn passages, or the like, which has been the Cadets' staple for a few decades. Other corps have done a lot of running, but little simultaneous playing while running (Cavies perfected this in the early 2000s). Rolling around on the turf or pretending that marching members are in the guard when they're not playing just looks like a bad high school band to me. We had to do that in high school. The band would do stupid dance moves during drum features. "Body movement" is in this same, awful, tradition, and it's almost never very demanding, but it's almost always overused these days, and most always worse than narration or thunderous goo ever could be. But back to the point: what must the Cadets add to fully realize the potential of this show and what seems to be the unmatched talent across all sections they have this year (if scores indicate anything)? Edited June 29, 2014 by zigzigZAG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCHEZman Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Coat's book is definitely more difficult than the Cadets, particularly in the front ensemble. This might be the best front Bluecoats have ever had. The breadth of vocabulary being explored in both sections is possibly more varied than anyone out there. They are also achieving it at a higher level than Cadets at the moment. Don't get me wrong. The Cadets are fantastic, but Jeff Prosperie's numbers last night say a lot. He had Coats up 3 points in comp, and a point in achievement. If both programs get to complete clarity, Coats win out on the comp number. As for the overall shows, I think (in many cases) the people who complained about lack of demand from the Devils a few years ago weren't recognizing the non traditional demands being put on the performers in terms of presence, body movement etc. Sure, they had less run and gun than some other corps, but that's not the only way to generate demand. Cadets have a lot of demand in their show. It will be interesting to see how things develop over the next few weeks. I think where the "its not hard enough" argument comes from is that they are already very clean. This can be a liability down the road, but its hard to say what further clarity will reveal in terms of compositional demand. As someone else said, there's more in play than just number of notes. George, I'd actually argue that the Coats need visual clarity more at the moment. They don't execute as well visually yet as other corps, and I'm wondering how much demand we might be missing due to that lack of execution. They did just change visual staff/style. In general, its a good year for drum corps. I don't think I've seen a single show I haven't enjoyed. Can't wait to see how everything stacks up at the first regional. As I stated elsewhere, I was at Cadets ensemble yesterday and really got to watch the show piece by piece. This show is loaded with content/demand and they just happen to be performing it relatively well compared the others around them. They still have to put more drill in at the end and the uniform changes will enhance the different sections of the show. I just think it's interesting if other corps come out strong, they are predicted to go undefeated and when Cadets come out strong they will peak early. Lastly, narration worked very well for me last night. It was an additional tool to provide clarity to the show from a "what" are they doing perspective. It is very well designed and performed show vs. last year where towers arguably disrupted the visual and guard captions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Coat's book is definitely more difficult than the Cadets, particularly in the front ensemble. This might be the best front Bluecoats have ever had. The breadth of vocabulary being explored in both sections is possibly more varied than anyone out there. They are also achieving it at a higher level than Cadets at the moment. Don't get me wrong. The Cadets are fantastic, but Jeff Prosperie's numbers last night say a lot. He had Coats up 3 points in comp, and a point in achievement. If both programs get to complete clarity, Coats win out on the comp number. As for the overall shows, I think (in many cases) the people who complained about lack of demand from the Devils a few years ago weren't recognizing the non traditional demands being put on the performers in terms of presence, body movement etc. Sure, they had less run and gun than some other corps, but that's not the only way to generate demand. Cadets have a lot of demand in their show. It will be interesting to see how things develop over the next few weeks. I think where the "its not hard enough" argument comes from is that they are already very clean. This can be a liability down the road, but its hard to say what further clarity will reveal in terms of compositional demand. As someone else said, there's more in play than just number of notes. George, I'd actually argue that the Coats need visual clarity more at the moment. They don't execute as well visually yet as other corps, and I'm wondering how much demand we might be missing due to that lack of execution. They did just change visual staff/style. In general, its a good year for drum corps. I don't think I've seen a single show I haven't enjoyed. Can't wait to see how everything stacks up at the first regional. If nothing else I think this is the best over-all percussion design Bluecoats have ever had! Tom Rarrick (in concert w/brass arrange Doug Thrower) have really hit a high-point with these arrangement: this entire music design will seemingly be the gold-standard for Bluecoats! I agree their front ensemble is PHENOMENAL, though I haven't seen any of any corps' shows to start forming an opinion of Best/Better. I think this is another insanely competitive year (Bluecoats, Cavaliers, Cadets, Blue Devils, SCV, IMO, can ALL contend at this point) and we fans will benefit all summer long watching these corps improve and throw-down! But yeah: I really can't say/compliment Rarrick & Thrower enough for the incredible music books they've given us fans!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzigZAG Posted June 29, 2014 Author Share Posted June 29, 2014 Anyone have recent lot videos of both drumlines from Coats and Cadets running the show? It'd be interesting to compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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