Kamarag Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 My concern is the high school groups that try to emulate them. Someone brought up the example of tarps, and how much thought has to go into safely integrating them into a performance. Now extrapolate that out to the hundreds of high school groups who are using tarps on football fields around the country every fall - do you think they are making that same kind of effort to get it right, or even know to try? I don't think they . Obviously, DCI and the individual corps bear no responsibility for what any high school tries. I'm also don't believe outright band on things like tarps are the answer either. What if one school uses slivers of tarps like Blue Stars, and never marches over them (I wrote a how that did something similar a few years back). Most circuits have clauses in the rules stating that safety is at the discretion of the contest director or chief judge. Anything deemed unsafe by any band can be banned for that band for the season. I think that's a better approach than a blanket zero-tolerance policy. I also understand that not everyone will agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henson Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Of course DCI and the corps are not responsible to the high school programs and their safety. That is 100% the responsibility of the people working with those programs. My point was that I feel that DCI and the corps do a good job of this. The high school programs, however, do not. I've watched entire drum lines tumble over a badly placed tarp. I've watched kids picked up and just about flipped over when the tarp they have one foot on gets dragged towards the goal line by panicked kids and adults terrified of a penalty they have almost no chance of receiving (BOA generally won't penalize as long as a good faith effort is being made). I've watched billboard sized props picked up by the wind and blown into high velocity drill - or knocked over onto colorguard. I've watched tarps picked up by wind and blown into performers. All of this is preventable by basic practices that the corps are (largely) using, but that many schools are not. In the scholastic setting, the liability issue is a very real concern. There will, someday soon, be an accident that changes how we deal with props on the football field across the activity. My only point is - why not make the changes before we're forced to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrownStarr Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I'll relate a story from 2009. Anyone on the road that year will remember the crazy sickness that hit several corps that summer. Crown and Cadets marched with a slew of holes for a few nights, and I think Crown even pulled out of one show (someone can correct me on that if it's wrong). Nope, you're correct. Somewhere in the deep south, I think. Probably a solid third or fourth of the corps was inside in their bags, and most of the rest still out rehearsing were sick. We stopped early and they told us we'd pulled out of the show, then we drove to our next housing site and got hours and hours of floor time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Nope, you're correct. Somewhere in the deep south, I think. Probably a solid third or fourth of the corps was inside in their bags, and most of the rest still out rehearsing were sick. We stopped early and they told us we'd pulled out of the show, then we drove to our next housing site and got hours and hours of floor time. I remember seeing you guys at the first show after you parked, and even with a few holes, as soon as you finished about ten or twelve kids ran to the end zone and puked over the fence. I think it was the Mississippi show? We were all laughing, not realizing our kids were about three or four days away from catching the Plague. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 No matter how often anyone practices, incidents (to me most "accidents" are preventable)will happen. Even the professional stage performers mess up occasionally. It's tough to guarantee perfect performances 100% of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skevinp Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I'll relate a story from 2009...Crown ...as soon as you finished about ten or twelve kids ran to the end zone and puked over the fence. Probably from eating too much grass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I think what I'm getting from some of the posts is that they're looking for a more formal "Job Hazard Analysis" as it's commonly called. It appears that some of this is in place and differs from corps to corps. The big questions would be how to establish standards and implement them. Where I work, things like this came into place at the behest of their insurance company after a serious slew of accidents corporate-wide over 20 years ago. Could a corps' insurer- if they have one (you'd think they should have!?!?!?), help with something like this if they were asked to? I'm certain they'd try. I have no idea what the accident rate is, then again, no one has hard data or done a professional study of it. A lot of movement techniques have changed over the decades to avoid a lot of knee and muscle issues. I ended up having to do some minor therapy in the early 80's over some of the in-vogue techniques then. The essence of a lot of where this is going is trying to establish safe work/performance/rehearsal practices and trying to prevent injuries and liability issues. The thing is, there'd need to be some more scientific and analytic processes in place to do it. What do they formally have established? I just don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Wow, ad hominem much? Ignoring your obvious ######-baggery... Drum corps are *very* safety conscious. Take Crown's trampolines as an example. Crown had trampoline experts coach them through the stunts during the learning process, using spotters. They determined, with advice, what was safe and what wasn't. They even established rules for what the kids could and couldn't do with the trampolines during or after rehearsal. The whole thing was managed in a safe, effective way. With regard to tarps, there is always a chance you can fall. Many indoor groups and drum corps actually teach their members how to fall properly. You can also rehearse through bad tarp set-ups and other similar issues. Will it ever be perfectly safe? No. it won't. Neither will marching in, over, or around props. But the corps that use them spend endless hours working on moving safely. The number one cause of injury in drum corps is related to marching technique. Poor technique, either by accident or design, is why so many corps members have blown out knees and injured ankles. Almost all of the top corps have moved away from the very dangerous super straight-leg technique, even the corps that invented it (The Cadets). These corps have moved to a more relaxed form of straight leg technique (like Blue Devils use) or a completely relaxed, bendy technique (Cavaliers, Vanguard). There are still a few corps that use super straight-leg, but they are thankfully becoming fewer in number. The number two cause of injury, accidental collision, is something you can't do a whole lot about outside of making sure all members are paying attention to their surroundings and what they are assigned to do. More mature members are far less likely to be the cause of such accidents, but they can and do happen. Oh, and a note on the field at Allentown. The new field dries really, really fast. Not only that, when it is wet, it's not slippery. If anything, it's a bit sticky. That comes from my direct experience there judging and teaching with my bands. judged 28 bands on it in a driving rain. not one wipe out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) judged 28 bands on it in a driving rain. not one wipe out I did 28 in Scranton, PA in a cold driving rain, and the only wipe out was the drum judge. You know it's a rough night when you're soaked and miserable *in the box*. Hysterical. That was also the night if the infamous "chair incident", Jeff. Edited August 12, 2014 by Kamarag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Obviously, DCI and the individual corps bear no responsibility for what any high school tries. I'm also don't believe outright band on things like tarps are the answer either. What if one school uses slivers of tarps like Blue Stars, and never marches over them (I wrote a how that did something similar a few years back). Most circuits have clauses in the rules stating that safety is at the discretion of the contest director or chief judge. Anything deemed unsafe by any band can be banned for that band for the season. I think that's a better approach than a blanket zero-tolerance policy. I also understand that not everyone will agree. they do. i've chief judged indoor shows where i've had to pull staffs aside to go over stuff being done because of the risks I saw involved. Even forced one group to make a change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.