xandandl Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) Having witnessed Boston's human pyramid/windmill, having held my breath for Coats, Crown, and others attempting trust catches, having heard about and still praying for the color guard member of Blue Devils who, injured in Spring training, was able to make an appearence at Indianapolis, seeing Cadets deal with damp stages strangely not painted with nautical paint, this article struck my attention: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/world/asia/in-india-human-pyramids-draw-crowds-and-protests.html?_r=0 Who hasn't heard of the concussion concerns dominating NFL, NHL, and NCAA discussions of late? Who wasn't concerned when the Crown member (Brandon? a contra) suffered several years back at finals and tried to pull himself off the field without drill destruction? Or the Boston tuba who suffered the torn ACL this year in Indy and attempted the same? The judge didn't know whether the kid was injured or pretending to be one of the barnyard pigs of their program? In this off-season of considerations of the future, will corps' insurance go up as a result of the danger to the performer in these visual programs? Will visual designers have to re-think the vulnerability in this era of trampolines, lunging over Blue Stars' couches, and putting the bodies at higher risk??? Consider and discuss. Edited August 25, 2014 by xandandl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 12 years ago, a Magic tenor player tripped over a prop/bass drum that didn't get moved at the right time and ended up with his drums on his head in finals. There are stories of injuries dating quite far back in the activity. Things happen. Its not a product of visual design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 Yes, there is the history of accidents, mistakes and the unexpected. Ask drum judge Charlie Poole about the mis-tossed sabre that sent him to the hospital several seasons back. But my point is, modern visual demand is stretching vulnerability. When is too much? How far is appropriate? Is it right to write danger into the show??? (human pyramid such as Cavalier's continental divide mountain is another example.) Do we keep pushing the limits until someone dies before us (and I don't mean in Phantom's show, necessarily.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Yes, there is the history of accidents, mistakes and the unexpected. Ask drum judge Charlie Poole about the mis-tossed sabre that sent him to the hospital several seasons back. But my point is, modern visual demand is stretching vulnerability. When is too much? How far is appropriate? Is it right to write danger into the show??? (human pyramid such as Cavalier's continental divide mountain is another example.) Do we keep pushing the limits until someone dies before us (and I don't mean in Phantom's show, necessarily.) Wow: that is impressive hyperbole!! I think this is a non-issue. Yes, injuries happen as is the nature in ANY physical activity. No, I don't think there have been enough egregious injuries to cause major concern to stem drill design (or spout goofy stuff like, "Oh my god someone is going to die before too long unless we change!!"). Injuries suck, especially serious ones; but I think staff, designers, directors, etc. generally do a GREAT job in preventing injuries, using PT and other treatment/prevention methods routinely, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) In this off-season of considerations of the future, will corps' insurance go up as a result of the danger to the performer in these visual programs? No.... the insurance rates will be unaffected by these highlighted injuries you cited. You brought up sports. I can't think of a single outdoor team competitive sport in the world that has less injuries than participation in Drum Corps field competitions. Can you ? Futhermore, The DCA side of Drum Corps of Drum Corps has had a few unfortunate heart attack deaths in performance over the years, but their future insurance rates were unaffected by these unfortunate in performance deaths. There is a reason for this. All Corps have waivers that all marchers voluntarily sign that hold harmless the organization itself for injuries sustained in practice and/ or performance participation with that organization. If you played any youth sport when you were younger, or later had a child that did, you would be aware of this, it would seem to me. In any event, I hope this alleviates your concern on these Corps future insurance rates that will be negotiated between these Corps and their Carriers. Also, like most hobbies, the choices to participate in them is an individual decision... where the individual and their families weigh the risks ( and the benefits ). My guess, you would not want to assign to me the right to decide for you what hobbies or sports you or anyone in your family can participate in, in the future. Or would you ? Edited August 25, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 So, Perc, re: "I don't think there have been enough egregious injuries..." How many are too many? One of the challenges that modern designers face as the major shows are now in larger-than-life facilities like GeorgiaDome, LOS, Giants Stadium, etc. is that the effects must be greater to make an impact. My question is basically, at what (human) cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seen-it-all Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I agree that there is some hyperbole going on here and I think drum corps staffs do an overall excellent job of training and taking care of their performers when it comes to getting them into proper physical shape to do what they're being asked to do. But at the same time I do think there is a point to be made about designing more and more dangerous elements into a show. Yeah, it seems silly to think that somebody is bringing up the possible death of a member to make a point, but all it takes is one really bad spinal injury (or worse, god forbid) due to a design element like a prop that wasn't constructed well, or due to an extreme element of risk where performers are thrown into the air, or due to some other safety concern that was neglected, and the entire activity will suffer. Not to mention the poor soul who suffers the injury. There is no shame or silliness in asking that these corps put safety above general effect in planning these wow moments. And I'm not saying they aren't, but it doesn't hurt to have a discussion about how to make the entire process better and more safe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Holland Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 In an athletic event of any nature, injury is a possibility. This isn't any different than gymnastics, ballet, track and field...etc etc etc. You don't go into this without prior knowledge that you could be injured. Knees, backs, wrists, etc do get injured every summer, and the members are cared for by the staff and local hospitals pretty well. I'm certain most, if not all corps by this point in time, have a medical professional on staff. (registered RN, LPN, or sports medical professional/trainer) The reason stuff is rehearsed over and over and over, is to eliminate the possibility of these accidents and to see if they will work and if they don't work, they don't perform them. But accidents happen. I got clocked several times by a rifle or flag. Stuff happens. And honestly drill design is getting to the point where there's nothing new anymore. Just revisited and variated. Trust me when I say this as a former staff member, Injury possibility is always accounted for by a design staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) Seen it all: Thank you for focusing what I am trying to have others consider. Mr. Holland, I too have designed visuals, worked on World Class staffs and know well the discussions in the box, on the bus, and on the field. Bravado doesn't remove the reality. Edited August 25, 2014 by xandandl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) So, Perc, re: "I don't think there have been enough egregious injuries..." How many are too many? One of the challenges that modern designers face as the major shows are now in larger-than-life facilities like GeorgiaDome, LOS, Giants Stadium, etc. is that the effects must be greater to make an impact. My question is basically, at what (human) cost? Should DCA have disallowed Alumni Corp from participation due to its deaths in performance ? At" what human costs" would you say that it would it take to end those performances ? This is all just an oblique attempt to criticise ( you words ) " modern Drum Corps "... and we get it. But the bottom line is that by and large participation in " moderm Drum Corps ", on the whole, has few injuries.. especially compared to just about any outdoor field competitive sport in the world you could possibly think of. ( and even DCA has few deaths in performance considering the number of its participants over the years. ) Edited August 25, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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