Eleran Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 That would be all well and good, except that that's not the conversation that will be had in this topic. Not to mention, isn't this just a rehash of the very same topic that was started by another "brand new" poster just two weeks ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 This topic is simply a thinly veiled stab at modern drum corps designs. Bingo!... we have a winner ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focus02 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I was told by instructors that they used to practice falling down so they could practice recovery...this was referring to many years before I marched (fourteen years ago) then as well as today that concept seems insane and reckless to me. Having trainers, doctors, winter/spring training seems smart and that is how it works now. Marching Music's Major League should include some Major talent and design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mj3004 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I do not consider anything that has been done to be over the line for drum corps. Design and Instructional staff's make safety the highest priority. Just FYI, WGI put a new policy in place effective for this coming season. Over the course of the past few seasons, WGI has been aware of an increased use of props that could potentially endanger performers in competition. With the activity reaching new heights in terms of creativity props have gotten taller, more elaborate, and occasionally the risk has exceeded what we consider safe for our events. While WGI certainly does not want to stifle innovation and creativity in the planning of any program, it is necessary that we insure that an unfortunate situation does not occur. At the annual meeting of the WGI Board of Directors, the following policy was passed and will be inserted into the rules for all color guard, percussion and winds competitions beginning in 2015: WGI Sport of the Arts strongly recommends that performing groups and their directors/staff use the utmost caution and forethought in planning and use of props that might place participants (and others) in potential danger during assembly or use. Props built and/or used by groups at WGI events, including drum major podiums, that measure over six (6) feet high and are used in such a way that result in a participant whose feet are more than six (6) feet above the competition area must have appropriate safety railings in place. Participants are prohibited from jumping or leaping off any prop that exceeds six (6) feet in height unless protective padding is in place or other adequate safety precautions are taken. PENALTY: At the discretion of the Contest Director, including (but not limited to) prohibition of the use of the overheight/unsafe prop(s) or disqualification. Such penalty can be assessed based on a number of factors, including the height, number, and/or type of equipment subject to penalty and the possibility of a safety or property damage issue arising from the use of such equipment. If you have any question about any prop you are currently considering for your program, please contact: Dale Powers, Director of Color Guard Mark Thurston, Director of Percussion Wayne Markworth, Director of Winds We look forward to another season of amazing and safe performances in 2015. Sincerely, Ron NankervisWGI Executive Director 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seen-it-all Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 That would be all well and good, except that that's not the conversation that will be had in this topic. It could be. If people who care to actually discuss these things help to steer it in that direction. Or we could just sit around and say that'll never happen because we LET it happen that way. Let's talk about prop design. How big is too big? Are they any kinds of props or risks being taken (jumps, etc) that people would consider too dangerous (greater heights, perhaps...how high is too high, etc)? Who builds these things and what safety precautions do they incorporate (if any) into their design? We've seen ramps and such in drum corps. What kind of traction do they provide? Do the staff help build? Exactly how much input do the designers or staff have in construction or is it left up to the builders to incorporate these safety features? If props are built in sections that need to be attached together, what kind of devices help keep them fastened together and prevent member injury during performance? Would constructing props that utilize greater height be something we might see in the future? How would the safety concerns manifest themselves should that be the case? These are but a few questions I have about all of this, not because I'm out to attack what the designers are currently doing. I love when they push the limits. I have my own experience with props and such (nothing on the scale of what some of the prop-heavy drum corps have done), but I'm just curious how these things are done elsewhere and would like to know more about it when I incorporate these things into my own shows with my own groups. I'm seeking information and better ways of doing things. I'd love for more people to join in and offer their experiences and input. And if all people would rather do is use this as a way to attack the designers, then I guess you'll be right. But you mentioned that you agree there is a conversation to be had about all of this. Why not join in on that conversation and at least TRY to make this the most productive conversation we can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seen-it-all Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I do not consider anything that has been done to be over the line for drum corps. Design and Instructional staff's make safety the highest priority. Just FYI, WGI put a new policy in place effective for this coming season. Thanks for posting that. I'm not currently aware if DCI has such a policy. Does anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Holland Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 i dont think they have a policy. Its not like OSHA is brought in to consult on these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideways Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Having witnessed Boston's human pyramid/windmill, having held my breath for Coats, Crown, and others attempting trust catches, having heard about and still praying for the color guard member of Blue Devils who, injured in Spring training, was able to make an appearence at Indianapolis, seeing Cadets deal with damp stages strangely not painted with nautical paint, this article struck my attention: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/world/asia/in-india-human-pyramids-draw-crowds-and-protests.html?_r=0 Who hasn't heard of the concussion concerns dominating NFL, NHL, and NCAA discussions of late? Who wasn't concern when the Crown member (Brandon? a contra) suffered several years back at finals and tried to pull himself off the field without drill destruction? Or the Boston tuba who suffered the torn ACL this year in Indy and attempted the same? The judge didn't know whether the kid was injured or pretending to be one of the barnyard pigs of their program? In this off-season of considerations of the future, will corps' insurance go up as a result of the danger to the performer in these visual programs? Will visual designers have to re-think the vulnerability in this era of trampolines, lunging over Blue Stars' couches, and putting the bodies at higher risk??? Consider and discuss. Have you even heard of a thing called Ironman racing where it is typical that upwards of 10% of the field does not even finish the race? You can can upwards of 20% on hot & humidity course like Louisville or mountainous areas where the weather is just too unpredictable (St. George, Utah or Lake Tahoe). 2000+ person mass swim starts, 112 mi bike legs where I have pushed 50 mph several times, and just to top it off with running a marathon which I have ran in anything from 55 F and a torrential thunderstorm to 90 F and 60% humidity. We don't do this stuff because it is easy and neither do the kids that march corps! These kids are very well trained and physically prepared for the demands of modern shows. There is inherent risk in any activity...little Johnny nailed that direction change 99 times in a row but blew it on the 100th and little Suzie lost a tooth. Training is the only way to minimize the risks and prepare the performs how best to respond to each situation. You atually can teach people how to fall with the least potential for injury! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 It's an athletic activity. Injuries are a natural part of it. No pain, no game. It's not like the kids have no idea what they're getting into. They know their bodies will be put under a lot of stress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) The WGI policy is exactly what I am speculating should be part of the discussion of DCI BoD and Directors of corps with their staffs. Thank you mj for posting it and to seen-it-all for your comments. The challenge for DCI corps/designers/instructors is even greater given the velocity of tempo, the number of performers, the size of the vertical space and "black space" at major competition sites. Because I do not officially speak for any of the four corps with whom I travelled this season, did consultations for this season, or helped with administrative matters this season, I have not included my name. It's the quality of the issue that is more important than the personality selling it. But no where have I said that I disdain modern corps visuals, think the staffs are ignorant or not conversing on the topic. That is the wrongful judgment of two loud posters unaware that I have worked on the visual staffs of three medalist World Class corps, have judged, instructed and provide multiple sponsorships, and still do. Keep to the topic and if you are unable, then don't post. In other words, don't stand in the way if you can't feed the discussion. Perhaps a different way of looking at the possible need to re-vamp our perceptions and perspectives so to re-evaluate our procedures is this which was emailed to me privately by someone not on DCP. Imagine a corps tried to fill the vertical space at LOS by having a horn player ride a zip-line from the 30 to 30 in the closing moments. Maybe cheesy like the Cadets' banners at the end, but potentially as inexact as the hanging of those banners actually were across their top (the sagging Capitol.) Are we prepared for the dangers, without nets, without cushions, without medical staff able to interupt the show to get to injured players? These are good off-season questions BEFORE more serious problems result. Just ask BD's guard from this spring training. Edited August 25, 2014 by xandandl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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