84BDsop Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Honest question - why has this become such an issue year after year as of late? Never really had this widespread of an issue until the last five years or so. What has changed in the activity in the last five years or so that has caused the DVDs/CDs to get as chopped up as they are now? $$$$$$ And on some cases, composers who are particular about variations to their work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 (edited) IMHO, whether it is the Corps, or DCI or the production company - someone is not doing their job. And it happens year after year. If I was constantly not doing MY job the boss would find someone who could. And I would be looking for a new job. What makes you think a synch agreement re one composition applies to all the others from year to year?? Edited November 9, 2014 by 84BDsop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skevinp Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Sigh. This is so misunderstood (not just by you) it's not even funny. Synch rights are *not* the responsibility of the individual corps. They are the responsibility of whoever is producing the DVD/BlueRay/Live stream. The individual corps are only responsible for arranging and performing rights. What you propose is to penalize a corps for something that not only isn't their fault, but likely won't even be known about until months after the fact. Great idea! So the only people who have control over what music is played are not the ones held responsible for securing the rights necessary for us to enjoy it? I must be missing something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deftguy Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 (edited) Not really pertaining to copyright issues but has anyone noticed how much compression DCI has added to the videos? Why do they do it? Some of the big hits sound awful and actually physically painful to the ears to listen to. Perhaps it is because they are trying to create one mastered mix for multiple media. That was the problem with CD's, and now a problem with digital film sound. It is expensive to optimize mixes for multiple delivery systems, so why not just master one mix for all delivery system(while degrading the experience for the lossless uncompressed audio format) to save some money(the this is good enough mentality) On my trip through the legacy series(1972-1999) I found audio limiters (not compression) to be a problem beginning in the 90's. Having borrowed my friends copies of 2008-2014 Blurays, I found the problem consistent and gradually getting worse. In saying this, are you referring to the streaming audio, or the Bluray lossless audio? In audio, compression is often mistaken for aggressive limiting, and limited dynamic range as a result from limiting. Edited November 9, 2014 by deftguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 (edited) So the only people who have control over what music is played are not the ones held responsible for securing the rights necessary for us to enjoy it? I must be missing something. What Kamarag is saying (I think) is that it is the legal responsibility of the corps to get the rights for their live performances (to play, to arrange, and to perform for an audience, as I recall from last year - I'm no lawyer) and it is the legal responsibility of DCI to get the mechanical (CD) and synch (video) rights. I.e. that's who gets sued. But yes, DCI could hold the corps responsible to obtaining mechanical and synch rights on DCI's behalf and leave it at that. Conversely, DCI instead could mandate that they (DCI) obtain all the rights on the corps behalf. Or they could let the corps choose, as long as it gets done before step-off. Keep in mind that DCI is almost certainly violating synch rights anyway by streaming performances during the summer. The fact that they block that content only after failing to obtain licensing for the physical media several months after the fact strongly suggests that they are relying on the hope that ASCAP, etc. don't have a Fan Network subscription and so won't notice. They can't leave the edits out of Fan Network because obviously the fans would notice the violation. But it was there all along. DCI is run by the directors of the corps themselves, who are involved in the creative process and have an interest in having the freedom to make programming decisions at any point in the spring and even during the summer. Why would they vote to be forced to pay for something they may not have to if it never gets used? In fact the corps themselves post many videos on their websites of both practice and performance, obviously without synch rights. I also suspect that if the issue were forced (by reporting all this to the rights holders) the directors would simply make DCI stop all current season content on FN. I bet they would rather lose that share of FN revenue than actually plan ahead responsibly. It's just unacceptable to them. And they don't have to. So they won't. Don't blame DCI corporate though; they are not the board. They're doing their best with the situation. Edited November 9, 2014 by Pete Freedman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 It's funny, I read some posts and they are spit on, in regards to legality, logic, and responsibility. While others post blame and negativity, and those are the ones that clearly know nothing about copyright and entertainment law. I do hope we all realize that it takes months, sometimes years to sort through all this. It's also incredibly complex and not as simple as many believe it should be. Furthermore, these things can change in an instant and at random times. Such as Madison and Empire State of Mind. Or the music of Leonard Bernstein. If you're going to complain, back your arguments up with knowledge on the subject. Also keep in mind that your complaining about souvenir items from DCI, so maybe DCP is not the appropriate place to voice these complaints. If some think it actually makes a difference, talk to people at DCI or with the corps, most, if not all, take nothing on here seriously, even if they read it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 It's funny, I read some posts and they are spit on, in regards to legality, logic, and responsibility. While others post blame and negativity, and those are the ones that clearly know nothing about copyright and entertainment law. I do hope we all realize that it takes months, sometimes years to sort through all this. It's also incredibly complex and not as simple as many believe it should be. Furthermore, these things can change in an instant and at random times. Such as Madison and Empire State of Mind. Or the music of Leonard Bernstein. If you're going to complain, back your arguments up with knowledge on the subject. Also keep in mind that your complaining about souvenir items from DCI, so maybe DCP is not the appropriate place to voice these complaints. If some think it actually makes a difference, talk to people at DCI or with the corps, most, if not all, take nothing on here seriously, even if they read it. As a fan who wants a DVD with a complete performance, am I now required to be sympathetic with edits because of the process behind it? I buy the product and I expect the product to be complete. I seem to remember no discount on last year's DVD with an entire corps missing. Then again, perhaps I am not looking at the issue with "legality, logic and responsibility." I don't need to have a complete understanding of what the process takes. I don't need to have ANY understanding for that matter. If the product is not complete, then there is one less item sold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Perhaps it is because they are trying to create one mastered mix for multiple media. That was the problem with CD's, and now a problem with digital film sound. It is expensive to optimize mixes for multiple delivery systems, so why not just master one mix for all delivery system(while degrading the experience for the lossless uncompressed audio format) to save some money(the this is good enough mentality) On my trip through the legacy series(1972-1999) I found audio limiters (not compression) to be a problem beginning in the 90's. Having borrowed my friends copies of 2008-2014 Blurays, I found the problem consistent and gradually getting worse. In saying this, are you referring to the streaming audio, or the Bluray lossless audio? In audio, compression is often mistaken for aggressive limiting, and limited dynamic range as a result from limiting. Audio streaming. It's hard to describe what I'm hearing. It's kind of like... On large brass hits it's a lot of power without the fullness of the sound. The sound is "trapped" and so I end up getting this slightly painful sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 As a fan who wants a DVD with a complete performance, am I now required to be sympathetic with edits because of the process behind it? I buy the product and I expect the product to be complete. I seem to remember no discount on last year's DVD with an entire corps missing. Then again, perhaps I am not looking at the issue with "legality, logic and responsibility." I don't need to have a complete understanding of what the process takes. I don't need to have ANY understanding for that matter. If the product is not complete, then there is one less item sold. No you don't need an understanding, but complaining about souvenirs on a forum that has no chance of changing things doesn't make sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 No you don't need an understanding, but complaining about souvenirs on a forum that has no chance of changing things doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps the same as you complaining about the "complainers." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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