Pete Freedman Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 This thread does wander ... Is it possible that props have become more affordable to make and transport? Props like SCV used back in the day looked expensive to produce and to transport. I have no doubt that more corps would have used props if they had the bingo scratch. (not to be confused with a gambling related medical condition.) In particular, props do not directly add to a corps' score, so it was probably natural for a director to write them off as conspicuous consumption. Every dollar spent has to be justified based on the educational value to students as the ROI. So my guess is somebody is doing a better job of convincing directors that props add to educational value and/or the score. Who actually makes these props? Is it the FJM/Band Shoppe/DeMoulin companies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 (edited) This thread does wander ... Is it possible that props have become more affordable to make and transport? Props like SCV used back in the day looked expensive to produce and to transport. I have no doubt that more corps would have used props if they had the bingo scratch. (not to be confused with a gambling related medical condition.) In particular, props do not directly add to a corps' score, so it was probably natural for a director to write them off as conspicuous consumption. Every dollar spent has to be justified based on the educational value to students as the ROI. So my guess is somebody is doing a better job of convincing directors that props add to educational value and/or the score. Who actually makes these props? Is it the FJM/Band Shoppe/DeMoulin companies? I wouldn't be so sure about the score value of a prop. Yes, you are right they do not get scored BUT the bigger picture is did they add to the theme, bring the intent to life. Conscious or sub conscious I am very sure plays a big part just as flag colors and design. It for sure is a part of texture, overall theme, visual addition, etc. Which now becomes score worthy.Or not..lol Edited November 30, 2014 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Hey Jeff, I agree with all those who has props in the 90s and 80s also remember Cadets western show?, those things were huge. lol SCVs red poppy was visually one of my fav. shows I think at times there is a mis conception some have that designers believe they need something because BD or a top corps is doing something to be successful. I know maybe there are a few who might do this BUT I do think for the most part what happens is the creativity of some sort sparks creativity in others and THIS gives the green light. Not, I have to do something to be successful. You're right about new , if many do something then it just becomes the new norm and isnt new anymore, Then it becomes all about the how something is done which then can separate and could be unique again in some way I can agree with what you said about getting the green light to do something. My take is something iike: "Oh hey, BD did this (or even used a prop) and did well, so maybe we can now try it in DCI now too and be rewarded for it". I also see the other designers who feel that they have to try and emulate some successful elements of the top corps to try and be relevant and successful. But I think you've got a good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Hey Guardling! I remember that SCV had a few props back then in different years ( Red Poppy), Phantom used their hats as props a bit here and there, and BD used a tarp in 1990, but there's wasn't the level of props that we witnessed this year, and good ole Rondinero and Deluca even commented on that in the telecast. It was an arms race this year for props. Cadets 95 & 96 come to mind. Maybe Star 92 with the huge scrims. SCV 87 was also pretty crazy (as was the Not-The-Nutcracker year). Phantom had some stuff on the field when their front ensemble was spread out: not to the extent of others mentioned, but more than just their helmets. Cadets 98 with the taxi cabs and tarps. Crown 96 chess pieces; Les Etoiles monstrosities/drumming spin things. Just a few years that immediately come to mind regarding shows that relied heavily on props, and/or significant props (Cadets). I think this stuff is cyclical, and corps will go back to minimalist (marching/playing) again at some point. Or not: props are nothing new, even if this year more Finalists used props than before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Cadets 95 & 96 come to mind. Maybe Star 92 with the huge scrims. SCV 87 was also pretty crazy (as was the Not-The-Nutcracker year). Phantom had some stuff on the field when their front ensemble was spread out: not to the extent of others mentioned, but more than just their helmets. Cadets 98 with the taxi cabs and tarps. Crown 96 chess pieces; Les Etoiles monstrosities/drumming spin things. Just a few years that immediately come to mind regarding shows that relied heavily on props, and/or significant props (Cadets). I think this stuff is cyclical, and corps will go back to minimalist (marching/playing) again at some point. Or not: props are nothing new, even if this year more Finalists used props than before I'm hoping things are cyclical! Wouldn't want to see it every year from most corps, but now that you brought up even more shows, I guess I don't mind some form of props as much as I thought. I do remember all those shows you mentioned. Les Etoiles were interesting. SCV '86 was kind of a prop heavy show too. Star '87 ( Circus Show) has lots of them too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 A big part of the difference is the increased demand now, with the resulting super fast pace of technique and rapid mood shifts. It makes it impossible for a corps to just establish a powerful romantic mood and then just lay it into the audience's skulls at 90 db the way they used to. It's all more abbreviated now. *Cough cough* 2014 Bluecoats: Hymn of Acxiom. Thank you , that is all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 *Cough cough* 2014 Bluecoats: Hymn of Acxiom. Thank you , that is all Except Bluecoats didn't exactly do all the chopping up that other corps nowadays do. So pointing to Bluecoats is more helping his point than hurting it. With the normal style of today's corps, I think OP is correct that establishing that strong emotional mood is difficult 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Except Bluecoats didn't exactly do all the chopping up that other corps nowadays do. So pointing to Bluecoats is more helping his point than hurting it. With the normal style of today's corps, I think OP is correct that establishing that strong emotional mood is difficult I suggest you reread the quoted part again, as it relates to 'Coats and Hymn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowtown Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 so you start on the first page and click to this page what are we talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I suggest you reread the quoted part again, as it relates to 'Coats and Hymn. I did and I'm still confused why you asked me to reread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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