MikeD Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 That's pretty cheap. I'd add that there are other expenses that are not easily calculated, for instance, getting to and from band camp/practice in the summer, esp. if there is no parent home during those hours or the kid doesn't have a ride. And sometimes band camp itself, the instrument and its upkeep (although that's relatively minimal usually), food at competitions or other events (yes, you could pack, I know), uniform items like shoes, gloves. I know some of this may be one-time, but for a kid without means, those upfront costs can be prohibitive. Our band costs are in the few hundreds, including band camp. It covers a variety of meals during the season as well as other misc costs. Kids do purchase gloves and Dinkles where needed. However, we also never turn a student away who lacks the financial means...there are funds available to cover the costs for any student who demionstrates a true financial need. That is private communications between the parents and the band director. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWonka Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) Yeah it's expensive. But like Horn Teacher said other activities/sports are as much if not more. I've had 2 kids march and it adds up. But.... #3 plays competitive softball and it's just as expensive if not more. So team sports depending on what level you run at is as much. 2-3 $300 bats, $150-$200 "pro model" glove. $150 per month facility and coaching fee. Bat bags, uniforms. 2-3 pairs of $100 cleats. $100 or so tournament fees per month and then travel expenses. And they play in Texas, Colorado, Fla, California. Oh and she is a pitcher so $100-$200 per month in the off season for lessons. All in the pursuit of playing at the college level. Better do it because you like it not for any scholarship you might get. Because as a friend of mine once said, if you add all this crap up I coulda paid for a great ACT prep course and the first 2 years of school for what this costs. LOL The costs of drum corps and competitive sports have priced a big chunk of kids out of the game regardless of talent. But it is what it is. Edit: Now that I added everything up in my head drum corps might be cheaper. LOL Also our HS band charges $200-$300. And they just compete regionally. #4 is a Tuba player but just 13. But she is already making out her "tryout" list when I will let her go in a couple of years. Edited December 23, 2014 by WWonka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) ... Better do it because you like it not for any scholarship you might get. Because as a friend of mine once said, if you add all this crap up I coulda paid for a great ACT prep course and the first 2 years of school for what this costs. LOL The costs of drum corps and competitive sports have priced a big chunk of kids out of the game regardless of talent. But it is what it is... An article in the New York Times a couple of years back indicated that most parents spend more to train their prospective college athletes than they ever recoup in scholarship money. In other words, make the investment because your child can benefit from the experience, not in the expectation of scholarship money (or even a spot on the team!). As the father of a daughter who is a competitive dancer and a son who is a competitive swimmer, my view is drum corps actually is a good economic value. The fees are reasonable by comparison, particularly when you consider they include the cost of feeding the member for three or more months - something few other activities price into their costs. Where drum corps gets whacky is with the uneconomical travel that so many members incur. Think of all the Texans, for instance, flying up to Ohio and Illinois. How much more economical would it be for them to march Crossmen? I know the roads are long in Texas - but no so long as the price of an airline seat. That's neither here nor there as those Texans and all our drum corps frequent flyers are making their choices and paying for it. The issue for the OP shouldn't be whether the camps are economically justifiable for all. The market says it is. Moreover, the camps aren't just about learning the music. The camps are part of the experience, a place where the corps learns each other and the members begin to demonstrate their commitment to a summer that will demand even greater sacrifice from all. HH Edited December 23, 2014 by glory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanLib Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 Time is money too. If you drive and it takes 9 hours to get there, that's 18 hours of your life gone, on the road, sometimes in the dead of winter and snow. It sounds like many of us are lucky enough to be able to foot the bill for these things, and that's wonderful. But, when a kid is in college, I think I might view the bill differently. We have different levels of expectations for adult, college students. Not the same as mom and dad are going to support your competitive sport so you stay out of trouble, stay active, have goals, etc. But, I have been that kid who wanted to do something bigger and couldn't because of cost and access (and controlling parents too, but mostly cost). It's not fun. Or fair. I guess that's why I tend to ask the questions about how to make things more accessible, especially when I know they can have a positive impact on those who participate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWonka Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) Time is money too. If you drive and it takes 9 hours to get there, that's 18 hours of your life gone, on the road, sometimes in the dead of winter and snow. It sounds like many of us are lucky enough to be able to foot the bill for these things, and that's wonderful. But, when a kid is in college, I think I might view the bill differently. We have different levels of expectations for adult, college students. Not the same as mom and dad are going to support your competitive sport so you stay out of trouble, stay active, have goals, etc. But, I have been that kid who wanted to do something bigger and couldn't because of cost and access (and controlling parents too, but mostly cost). It's not fun. Or fair. I guess that's why I tend to ask the questions about how to make things more accessible, especially when I know they can have a positive impact on those who participate. No I totally get what you were trying to say. And I agree with it. I just kinda posted a counter point that all this stuff costs money, sports, drum corps, etc. And it's gotten to the point that it's pretty #### hard to afford. Even if your parents can come up with the money you have to make sacrifices to make it happen. And if you're in the situation you're talking about it can be #### near impossible. When I marched I talked my mother into writing checks to cover the last 1/2 of my dues but as a college student that first 1/2 was hard to come up with. That was 25 years ago and dues are a LOT higher. I wish I knew the answer or had the magic bullet to make it more affordable. But the economics of how drum corps is structured would have to be changed and as long as the top corps are turning kids away that's not happening any time soon. I will say this. I wish there was some way to remove the stigma attached with marching Open Class. You may not get the same experience marching with Genesis, Legends, 7th, MC, etc, etc but you do get a great experience and it is more affordable. If I can not afford the Mercedes I am not going to be so hard headed I walk to keep from driving the Ford. Edited December 23, 2014 by WWonka 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) Time is money too. If you drive and it takes 9 hours to get there, that's 18 hours of your life gone, on the road, sometimes in the dead of winter and snow. It sounds like many of us are lucky enough to be able to foot the bill for these things, and that's wonderful. But, when a kid is in college, I think I might view the bill differently. We have different levels of expectations for adult, college students. Not the same as mom and dad are going to support your competitive sport so you stay out of trouble, stay active, have goals, etc. But, I have been that kid who wanted to do something bigger and couldn't because of cost and access (and controlling parents too, but mostly cost). It's not fun. Or fair. I guess that's why I tend to ask the questions about how to make things more accessible, especially when I know they can have a positive impact on those who participate. That's a very good (and apt) point, Fan. However...as a part of my daughter's 9 years of Figure Skating, I had to also spend an innumerable number of hours (and accompanying fuel dollars) in getting her to and from her various practices, test sessions, competitions, and appearances. And from a purely parental perspective, I can tell you this... Even in hindsight, and subsequent financial summation, I wouldn't trade even 5 minutes of it away. The Father/Daughter trips, whether they were a half-hour, 2 hour, or day-long (and yes, even sometimes weekend-long) in length, gave us mutual time to converse, debate, or simply enjoy each other's company. I would hope that through those many hours, she learned something from me. I sure as hell know that I learned a lot from (and about) her. And the greatest thing is that it went beyond the simply familial...it was one human being learning from another. I had the chance not only to see her for who and what she was at the given time...but also to see the incredible young lady (and adult) that she would someday become. And nothing...and I mean nothing...could have ever been more enjoyable, educational, or personally satisfying. Sometimes, due to insufficient planning, I would find myself spending the last dollar in my wallet for the last gas fill-up on the final push home. However, there's simply nothing like your daughter handing you the bag with two Quarter-Pounders-with-cheese (that she purchased for you -- unsolicited -- with HER money -- on the final lunch/supper/midnight snack stop), handing it to you with a knowing smile on her face, and a daughterly peck on your cheek, with the words "Here, Dad. Thank you. And...I Love You." I'm sorry...I've hijacked this thread way too much as it is. I will speak no more of my personal experiences here. I promise. Edited December 23, 2014 by HornTeacher 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) I realize drum corps does not appear to be for those without disposable income, despite the fact that some MMs do work hard to make the money for the summer and/or crowdsource, etc. But, have there been many discussions about the costs associated with drum corps, especially the cumulative nature of them for mostly (relatively) poor college kids? I'm thinking of the costs to go to repeated camps. There's the cost to travel there and the cost of the camp. So, let's figure a tank of gas at least, sometimes two, plus camp fees. Camps seem to occur at about a monthly rate. That adds up. If you're a college kid trying to work to pay the bills, it's very hard, and yet, they love drum corps and feel pressured by staff to attend the camps. Not to mention this is right before and after the holidays when perhaps the kids and the parents are shorter on cash (not to mention, near crunch time and final exams for colleges). I feel for these members. As a parent who is planning right now for college expenses within the year, who is counseling her child to minimize debt in college, I guess I find some of this setup a bit elitist, though that's a strong word and I don't find the people of drum corps I know to be elitist. Yes, of course there are costs involved. I'm not saying it should be free. But I am saying, is it all necessary? Seems like this would be a wonderful place to start using some technology for virtual camps and whatnot. No, it's not like the real thing, but if it saves the kid $200 or more for a weekend, then maybe it's worth exploring. And as a side note, even high school marching band costs seem to be escalating beyond a typical kid's means. I really hate this. I've supported my local HS band generously, but I do think that curtailing some costs just to make the activity an option for those without independent wealth would be worth it. While I understand its not the overall point of the argument, I want to take issue a little bit with the boldened statement. Members don't feel pressure from staff to attend camps. The camps aren't optional. Its a requirement for membership. As a former member and someone who has worked with multiple drum corps I can say I've never felt "pressured", nor have I pressured anyone to come to a camp. Either this is something you want to commit to, or its not. Every individual has to make that determination on their own. All of that said, drum corps guards have been taking the spring off for years, and there are several percussion sections who are starting to do the same. They hold their auditions, wrap them up in January or February and then don't meet again until it gets closer to the summer. Given, for most of those situations, its motivated more by freeing up the indoor season for guards and drumlines, but it is a trend. Edited December 23, 2014 by actucker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) All of that said, drum corps guards have been taking the spring off for years, and there are several percussion sections who are starting to do the same. They hold their auditions, wrap them up in January or February and then don't meet again until it gets closer to the summer. Given, for most of those situations, its motivated more by freeing up the indoor season for guards and drumlines, but it is a trend. It's freeing up members for the WGI season which is in itself another expense for those members who want to march a corps in the summer. Edited December 23, 2014 by Lincoln Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 It's freeing up members for the WGI season which is in itself another expense for those members who want to march a corps in the summer. This is true, but those drum corps are not requiring that anyone march indoor groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 #4 is a Tuba player but just 13. But she is already making out her "tryout" list when I will let her go in a couple of years. Hope she has started fund raising for that possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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