caliswift Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Carolina Crown, in 2013, was probably a good 2 pts ahead of Blue Devils at Finals. It was because of the Blue Devils' history of success that kept them close. Crown had to win by 2 points in order to win by .25. Wut? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideways Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Wut? I missed something about a crack pipe in there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDz Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Friday night (one percussion judge) Crown jumps Cadets to second place, with two 2's in percussion ordinals. Saturday night (with two percussion judges), they drop to 4-5-5-5 in percussion ordinals and overtake the Blue Devils and win. Judges performed their duties independent of each other. In a show as great as last night's it wouldn't be called slotting, it would be fixing..... a far more serious matter. Top to bottom, this is the best overall quality DCI has ever seen. The top 5 are under a narrow blanket of scores, as are other pockets of tightly grouped corps. I believe fully that the judges let the chips fall...... and we are the winners..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) Slotting doesn't mean the judges determine who places what - it simply means that certain corps, due to their either recent or not so recent history, get the benefit of the doubt. The other corps have to pay their dues and struggle for a long time until they are as good as the other corps - in which case they start to score within 4-5 pts or so of those that do get the benefit of the doubt. Carolina Crown, in 2013, was probably a good 2 pts ahead of Blue Devils at Finals. It was because of the Blue Devils' history of success that kept them close. Crown had to win by 2 points in order to win by .25. Slotting still exists - it's just that enough time has passed by that 1 or 2 corps have proven through time that they have what it takes to play with the big boys. That's always an inevitability. I do respect your opinion here, but I disagree with this take. I think it has less to do with a corps' history and more to do with order of performance, numbers management (as Jeff always eludes to), ability to find the accurate spread, yet while not pushing a corps into a score they are not deserving of, at least not yet. It also has to do with all the captions starting to look like the others, and that eventually your captions and sub-captions start to mirror your overall placement. To me that is slotting. As for your Carolina Crown example. No, they were not 2 points better than BD in 2013. No self-respecting judge would think to him or herself "you know, Carolina is 1 point better than BD, so I am going to make sure they lose by .5. They have to earn it." That's not slotting, that's cheating. That would be some kind of "good ole boy" politics, and there might have been a time when such things existed, and they likely do in other activities or organizations. Edited July 26, 2015 by jwillis35 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) People sometimes throw out terms on here but don't define for us what THEIR definition of the term is ( which may or may not be others definition of the term ), nor tell us what THEIR time frame is on that term ( which may or may not be others definition of the time frame). Then they go out of their way to bash others because THEIR definition of the term, and its timeframe, did not happen in THEIR created scenario. A good example of this is the term " slotting ". The OP here does not define HIS definition of the term " slotting " for us that he is using, nor its time frame. As such, many of us have no idea if his criticism of other fans( or DCP'ers on here ) is warranted or not. Edited July 26, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcorpsfever Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 More shows + More Looks = No Slotting Judges do get it right over the long haul. A show here or there, especially early in the season my result in a relatively few negative placement decisions, but overall, judges do get it right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albster Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 As long as there are no clearly defined and universally applied performance metrics that are used at least as a baseline to apply a score to a caption , the process remains highly subjective and leaves the final scoring solely to the discretion of individual judges. what criteria a judge uses to determine a a tenth of a point difference between corps in a given caption is a mystery to me. The only reality is that judges have to develop some tool to use. Corps are not adjudicated based on their performance but rather on their performance relative to the other corps they compete with. Call it banding slotting or whatever you want but as long as they adopt the philosophy of scores being a art form not a science , corps cannot be indifferent to various judges opinion. What determines the final scores of the contest is much more a factor of a how a judge applies there highly subjective and discretionary value to a performance..I believe judges are well aware of how a corps has been scored in their caption , and you will not see any radical changes to the progression of that score. Everyone knows that in the finals the winning score will be 98 or 99 and it will be one of the current top 5 corps. The season itself is judged on a scale that gets a corp starting at 70 or so and ending at 99. After about a week you can figure out who the top 3 or 4 corps it will get the 99... So given this and the variability of judges and no judging accountability ( no performance metrics) a corp can do all the "cleaning or changing" they wont but the effort eill far exceed the return in terms of raising a score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideways Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 SCV is slotted in 5th.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bsader Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) Though it is true that as of the 1969 ruling by the United States Supreme Court it is no longer considered a criminal act to shout fire in a crowded theater as it does not directly encourage others to commit specific criminal acts of their own it should now be known to all Drum and Bugle Corp enthusiasts that the law of the land, owing to the results of the D.C.I. Southeastern Championship held on July 18, 2015, that it is now considered illegal and not in good form to cry slotting when referring to Corp placements in any and all Drum and Bugle Corp competitions. Edited July 26, 2015 by Bsader 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) SCV is slotted in 5th.... haha... its no" conspiracy" either. They've earned that World Class Division upper tier " slot ".. And corps above and below SCV have earned that " slot " above and below SCV most years now too. These top tier Corps are " Go to Corps"... others outside the upper tier are " Stepping Stone Corps ". For example, Pacific Crest, that competes with Blue Devils on the field of competition, has recently agreed to be a dual camp coordinator of available talent with BD. Basically, campers that BD believes it can not utilized are referred to Pacific Crest. This essentially confines Pacific Crest status as a " Stepping Stone Corps " from now until forever, imo. My guess, some of the current marchers will find their way into upper tier Corps in a year or 2. and then the cycle repeats itself. Will Pacific Crest ever move up to Top 12 status some day ? No. Not under this arrangement. It would seem highly improbable, if not literally impossible to me. This does not mean we can't enjoy the Pacific Crest shows their staff and marchers put out some years however. Edited July 26, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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