N.E. Brigand Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Merely pointing out that . . . even if implemented, we'd be discussing more changes to the system once BD won again. And I absolutely agree that BD would likely figure out how to win regardless of the system. The only question is: what were they doing "wrong" in 1987-1993, when they only once placed as high as third. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcorpsfever Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Crown wins! As a Crown fan, this works for me for 2015. Of course, WHEN Crowns in Saturday night in 2016, I'd rather do it the cleaner way - beat everyone so convincingly, that even the judges succumb to awarding the rightful winner next time around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) I'm really, really glad that the many 2015 Crown members and staff that I am friends with don't subscribe to this nonsense. Because that's all this is...nonsense. Edited August 19, 2015 by Kamarag 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I've seen this argument all over Facebook by fans dissatisfied of the results. I understand it's upsetting to some, but that's part of the game we play. Every corps has had some form of heartbreak over the years of losing a spot at finals or being edged out for that championship. BD on numerous occasions, Regiment, 27th Lancers, Bridgemen, Muchachos, SCV, Cadets, etc. You name a corps and there is a story about how they didn't agree about a placement at championships. It's probably stings to various degrees for the Crown fan contingent to grasp this as I see a lot of posts on other websites about being "robbed," "cheated," "bad judging." It won't be the first time and it won't be the last. Enjoy the magic that was created out on the field this year and just how loved the show was to many. I'm just glad the members, staff and administration of both corps are taking the higher road and congratulating one another on a great year. Doesn't make me enjoy '78-'79 Regiment, '87 SCV, '08 BD and others any less regardless of where they placed. Good discussion though. Agreed, it's a good, reasonable discussion. There's no harm (or "nonsense") in asking why things are the way they are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Crown wins! As a Crown fan, this works for me for 2015. Of course, WHEN Crowns in Saturday night in 2016, I'd rather do it the cleaner way - beat everyone so convincingly, that even the judges succumb to awarding the rightful winner next time around. This was an attempt at satire, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 For those who don't remember or don't know, DCI tried something unusual in 1988 by not releasing scores for semis. The top 6 and bottom 6 corps performed in two groups in random order. BD went on 8th and SCV 9th. Eventual champion Madison went on 11th and Cadets, who finished 4th, went on last. No one realized until the semis scores were released on Saturday that Madison had lapped the field on Friday night. In a shock to absolutely no one, the format was dropped. And the judges for Finals were drawn from a hat, but the judges who had already judged Friday were included. It had been decided they wouldn't be put in the hat. I was down on the field after Friday finale talking with Don Pesceone when George Hopkins came up and reminded him of that, to which Don admitted George was correct and he had forgotten about that when he put the names in the hat. Multiple judges that had worked Friday were put into the mix for Saturday by mistake. That may or may not have changed the end results, but it was an interesting thing to witness live. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 It's interesting that some observers felt that Crown performed a "safe" show this year at Finals. In Semifinals, being a fan of drum corps got the best of me and I was screaming by the end of Crown's show. I heard people laughing behind me on the camera platform and realized some of their staff was standing there. In Finals, I so wanted to experience that same feeling, but at the end of the show, I leaned over to my co-blogger and whispered, "That's not the show they put on last night." Sometimes one doesn't catch lightning in the bottle every time. Although Crown's Finals performance was excellent and worth savoring, it did leave the door open...and Blue Devils know how to walk through doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 As for the OP's proposal...what more should we break that might not need to be fixed? Sometimes it seems like some love continual excellence, unless someone is continually excellent. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcorpsfever Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 What's great about this is the off season hot stove is going to be a smoking inferno. How many days until the season starts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) You win saturday you win it all. Should apply to captions too Yeah, I think I agree with you. As an educator I love the thought that any given night, with the right performance, you can make history. I also love the thought that if something goofy happened at Quarters or Semis, it doesn't matter the following night: you (kind of) start from scratch and just go for it without having to think at all about the previous night. I would imagine it is at least somewhat of a disappointment if a percussion section, for example, has the show of the summer Finals night, wins the caption Finals night, but losing the Sanford trophy because of averages. I think this happened with Cadets 1994, where the outscored BD Finals night but BD won the trophy because of averages, but I could be wrong. If that's true, then it would be even more of a bummer since Quarters were 'rained out' for the top 6 or so & not judged (only standstills), meaning there was one less show in the mix which might've made the difference in Cadets winning the trophy. But I do also like consistency, and especially with percussion where there are two judges per-night, I like the thought of a judge having to try a LOT harder if they want to swing a caption win one way or the other: it seemingly helps take bias out of the equation at least a little bit and takes absolute "power" of judges out of their hands slightly. DCI has seemingly gone back-and-forth quite a bit between averages vs Finals performance (I can't remember the last Finals that were not averages, though I'm pretty sure when I marched in the late 90's Caption awards were given for Finals score and not averages). I always feel like that unless were instructors or directors, I.E. the people absolutely affected the most by rules, this is someone else's game and we're just watching from the side (literally). If they feel this is best, who are we to argue? Edited August 20, 2015 by perc2100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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