losnickes Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I'm not an expert on all this copyright stuff, but would the issues be moot if DCI made the videos available for free like WGI did with their "WGI Zone?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDUB Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) I'm not an expert on all this copyright stuff, but would the issues be moot if DCI made the videos available for free like WGI did with their "WGI Zone?" No, that would not moot the issue. It would help reduce DCI's liability (i.e. damages) if sued, but it would not at all moot the issue. In fact, the copyright holders could easily go into federal court and get a preliminary injunction to force DCI to pull the audio/video products. WGI must have a license to offer their material online. My bet is that license will expire at some point, and WGI will be in the same boat as DCI. Edited October 1, 2015 by CDUB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleran Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) There should be an exemption for not for profit 501© organizations. ... This is just another example of corporate greed. Just whom do you think composers write music for? Every symphony orchestra is a 501© (example); every college and grade school band is tax exempt (the very definition of educational institutions!) ... If none of those organizations, nor any drum corps, had to pay to use a composer's work, then why would any composer write at all? If you want to argue that the longevity of copyright protection is excessive, I would agree with you. Edited October 1, 2015 by Eleran 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snare_guy_83 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Are we going to see more entire show original compositions like Cavaliers 2001-2003? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 No, that would not moot the issue. It would help reduce DCI's liability (i.e. damages) if sued, but it would not at all moot the issue. In fact, the copyright holders could easily go into federal court and get a preliminary injunction to force DCI to pull the audio/video products. WGI must have a license to offer their material online. My bet is that license will expire at some point, and WGI will be in the same boat as DCI. Reminds me of the lawsuit issue against businesses who play music in the background. Been more than a few years but argument was the music was being used to help the business make money so copyright holders wanted a cut. Forget if it even went to court so maybe someone else knows. Thinking of that as same argument could be made for DCI. IOW DCI uses the CDs/DVDs as a way to get customers in and make money. So even if the recordings were given away for free (like free music in the business), DCI still makes money from use of them in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDUB Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Total speculating here, but I have a theory . . . I've been thinking on what the major hold up is/could be with respect to licensing. In the past, if there were copyright issues, DCI would just remove the copyrighted material from the products. We'd all complain about the loss of elegance in these fleeting moments, and the "buzzkill" the silence or splced recording created. What is so different about this year that is presenting DCI from releasing audio-video products? After all, products for past years are available for purchase at DCI.org. And then it hit me: Sondheim. Blue Devils. Disney. Could it be that that there is no licensing available for the Blue Devils' show? It's not a stretch: Disney is notably jealous of its IP, and I could see it (a) not offering a license for the reproduction rights or (b) demanding a King's ransom (if Disney does not hold the Sondheim rights, this theory also applies to whomever/whichever entity does). If this is the case, is DCI unwilling to offer recordings of its World Championships without its gold medalist? Again, this is complete speculation, but I'm doing my best to read whatever tea leaves exist. No one at DCI is talking, and that potentially portends that DCI is still negotiating, but the lack of any substantive communication about the 2015 recording is disconcerting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I'm not an expert on all this copyright stuff, but would the issues be moot if DCI made the videos available for free like WGI did with their "WGI Zone?" No, there would still be legal hoops to jump through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Rott Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 And yet...the DCA DVDs were up for sale what, a week after championships? Wonder what DCA has that DCI doesn't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Total speculating here, but I have a theory . . . I've been thinking on what the major hold up is/could be with respect to licensing. In the past, if there were copyright issues, DCI would just remove the copyrighted material from the products. We'd all complain about the loss of elegance in these fleeting moments, and the "buzzkill" the silence or splced recording created. What is so different about this year that is presenting DCI from releasing audio-video products? After all, products for past years are available for purchase at DCI.org. And then it hit me: Sondheim. Blue Devils. Disney. Could it be that that there is no licensing available for the Blue Devils' show? It's not a stretch: Disney is notably jealous of its IP, and I could see it (a) not offering a license for the reproduction rights or (b) demanding a King's ransom (if Disney does not hold the Sondheim rights, this theory also applies to whomever/whichever entity does). If this is the case, is DCI unwilling to offer recordings of its World Championships without its gold medalist? Again, this is complete speculation, but I'm doing my best to read whatever tea leaves exist. No one at DCI is talking, and that potentially portends that DCI is still negotiating, but the lack of any substantive communication about the 2015 recording is disconcerting. Contrary to popluar belief, you can get permission for both Disney and Sondheim, and often it's easier than from others. Disney also does not own the rights to the works of Sondheim. The music from Sweeny Todd can be granted by going through Hal Leonard, and it's usually about $250 per musical selection, not the entire piece. Disney has a short list of "never giving permission" selections, and even that can be less than set in stone. Typically for Disney, the music can't be from a movie less than 6 months old. It's actually much harder to get permssion from composers like David Maslanka, Philip Sparke, Leonard Bernstein, etc. The music of Prince, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, and other pop/rock artists can also be difficult. The issue again comes down to not just performance and arrangement rights, but also recording, syncing, streaming, etc. You can usually get permission in as little as a few weeks and as long as 8-10 months for basic rights. The syncing and streaming rights flow like a river and can take up to a year or more to obtain, and even then they can be pulled after they were originally granted. The companies write contracts that are not set in stone and so they can often reserved the right to make changes, as they did with Madison and Empire State of Mind. The other side of it is that with much of the music out there, it is not a single company that holds all the rights to various pieces of music. Disney until very recently shared the rights to When You Wish Upon A Star, for example. There may be as many as 4-5 people/companies you need to obtain permission from to have total access. Another example, I'm currently looking at a doctoral thesis/wind ensemble transcription for Copland's Music for the Theatre. In the paper, the author had to get permssion to use the music, create the transcription and perform it from The Aaron Copland Fund for Music, Inc. in NYC, Alter and Kendrick LLP Law Offices, and Boosey and Hawkes, Inc. to simply create a transcription for one time use. Permission was not granted for recording, publishing, etc. and yet 3 entities had to sign off on it. I hope this information helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 And yet...the DCA DVDs were up for sale what, a week after championships? Wonder what DCA has that DCI doesn't... Are we sure they're obtaining all rights? Are they being looked at with the scrutiny that has been brought to DCI? Are they wanting to stream the content through something like the FanNetwork? Are they just hoping they don't get caught? Are the recordings of the same quality? I think it's great if they provide the DVD's that quick, I just hope for their sake that all of this is taken care of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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