MikeD Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I'm not sure of your "agenda" sometimes 1. Rural states always spend much less per capita than states with large cities - due the extremely high cost per student in the large cities In my state (MD) DC (suburbs) and Baltimore spends a ton per student. However, money spent per student is a very poor predictor of long term success. Just look at the horrible results in Baltimore, or most large cities. Our school system "ranks" among the top or top couple annually, and the local kids are, frankly, pretty poorly educated. But boy can they pile up AP credits and take those standardized exams. 2. OK is a rural, farm and industrial based state. I doubt advance placement classes and College degrees help you much on the ranch. So naturally they have more kids in general education, agriculture classes and vo-tech. And that's a good thing! Unless we don't value things like agriculture and industry anymore... Looking at ranking information online for the state of OK, the State dept of Ed gives BA HS a grade of B, which is a decent grade, IMO. Schooldigger.com ranks the overall district 144 out of 502.Niche ranks then 6th out of 100. OK overall is very poorly ranked on a National level, but IMO the best measure of a particular school is where it ranks within the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) OK overall is very poorly ranked on a National level, but IMO the best measure of a particular school is where it ranks within the state. I'd take a much broader view than " within the state", MikeD. I believe how a school district( and state) ranks in the Education levels of its students should be viewed in comparison to not only the broader US, but to the larger world at large, China included.. our biggest economic competitor. In that respect, this school, as well as most of its peers throughout the U.S., has much work to do to get back to its once preeminent world standing in Mathematics and in many of the other Science disciplines. That said, not to get sidetracked here.. the video put out by the Broken Arrow, Ok. school does trumpet their extracurricula excellence , and from that valued perspective the community has, this H.S. does have one fine Marching Band, Sports, and Cheerleader contingent ( and rather nice physical plant facilities ) that they can be rightfully proud of and decide to showcase to the world at large at least their extracurricula excellence there at their school, via youtube. Edited November 24, 2015 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Between performances of the Grand Nationals webstream, Bands of America showed both messages from their sponsors (including DCI) and their own promotional items, including one claiming that students who participate in music programs do better in other academic areas than students without music education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I'd take a much broader view than " within the state", MikeD. I believe how a school district( and state) ranks in the Education levels of its students should be viewed in comparison to not only the broader US, but to the larger world at large, China included.. our biggest economic competitor. In that respect, this school, as well as most of its peers throughout the U.S., has much work to do to get back to its once preeminent world standing in Mathematics and in many of the other Science disciplines. That is the driving force behind the push to adopt the Common Core standards and multi-state consortium-built tests like PARCC and SBAC. Don't hold up the China education system as anything worthy of being emulated, by the way. My daughter taught English in schools in two different cities, Shen Yang and Tianjin. so she got an insider POV of how the system over there works. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWonka Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) Looking at ranking information online for the state of OK, the State dept of Ed gives BA HS a grade of B, which is a decent grade, IMO. Schooldigger.com ranks the overall district 144 out of 502.Niche ranks then 6th out of 100. OK overall is very poorly ranked on a National level, but IMO the best measure of a particular school is where it ranks within the state. This is not the proper forum or time so I will make this brief. My mom, wife, aunt, daughter, sister-in-law, etc, etc, are or were all teachers in the state of OK so don't get me started. Yeah we rank terrible within the region. And as a state (not individual districts so much because I actually think BA, Union, Norman, etc do well) we will for the foreseeable future. Nothing is going to change. It's hard to argue the merits of education to uneducated people. Why waste all that money on someone who only works 9 months a year 6-7 hours a day? Oklahoma approved almost a 1000 emergency certifications so far this year and we are not even to the semester break. (Like 982 I think.) We have folks with degrees in hotel service management teaching 2nd grade. And it is only going to get worse unless we build a big fence around the state to hold teachers in. Teachers are leaving in droves because the surrounding states pay much, much better. It is what it is. But yeah education is kind of a disaster here. That being said I have always been impressed with some of our top HS music programs here and the quality they put out. Go check out 6A OBA, 4A-5A OBA on Youtube or somewhere. From BA to Edmond to Moore. Good shows. Heck even Berryhill and some others in 1A-3A small class OBA. Lots of DCI staff and ex DCI marchers spread out among those programs helping to make some good shows. Mike Edited November 24, 2015 by WWonka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) Between performances of the Grand Nationals webstream, Bands of America showed both messages from their sponsors (including DCI) and their own promotional items, including one claiming that students who participate in music programs do better in other academic areas than students without music education. That said, while this particular huge marcher member H.S. Marching Band is inarguably one of the best in not only the state, but the country, there is no evidence that these Marching Band students at this school are doing any better in Mathematics, Biology, etc the other sciences as a result of that MB participation. The sheer volume of the numbers of students in this Marching Band ( compared in numbers ratios to the entire student body) would have us think their students participation in Marching Band ( and/or Sports ). would have elevated this school's academic proficiencies . But we see no such evidence of this. As a matter of fact, the current proficiency levels in Mathematics ( only a woeful 62% at this H.S. are on grade level ) for example., currently puts this school below the average ( 74% ) for even Oklahoma High Schools, which are nationally among the lowest of all the 50 states ( Oklahoma, 48th ). But again, the school does not value Mathematics. It values Marching Band. As a result, it does exceedingly well in this, and wants the world to know it... via their PR. And I see nothing wrong or bad with this. I've just pointed out that school districts do not always agree on what is most valued in their schools in the Education of their students, thats all. This is by no means a controversial position either... especially when its an accurate assessment, and backed up by statistical data released by this High School itself to the governmental authorities as it is legally bound to do in a truthful and transparent fashion. Edited November 24, 2015 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) That is the driving force behind the push to adopt the Common Core standards and multi-state consortium-built tests like PARCC and SBAC. Don't hold up the China education system as anything worthy of being emulated, by the way. My daughter taught English in schools in two different cities, Shen Yang and Tianjin. so she got an insider POV of how the system over there works. You've peaked my curiosity with this, MikeD. What did she not like about the teaching of.. for example.... Mathematics in Shen Yang, & Tianjin ? Also, I find it interesting that students in China are learning English, but here in the US, no public schools to my knowledge are requiring Mandarin to be learned as a requirement for graduation. Heck, 98% of the U.S. public High Schools do not even offer it. Also, are you aware that the average H.S. student in China now ( post Mao ) has a better understanding of the US History, US Constitution, Bill of Rights, than does the average H.S. student in the US does ? Second question for you on this, MikeD... was English your daughter taught there in China an elective or a required course for graduation for these students ? Thanks in advance, MikeD. Edited November 24, 2015 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleran Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 ..., but here in the US, no public schools to my knowledge are requiring Mandarin to be learned as a requirement for graduation ... Hell, we can't even get it as an OPTION in our local schools (central NJ). French, German, Spanish and Italian ... it's as if we are still stuck in the 1930s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 To quote Mark Twain - the only people who lie more than politicians are statisticians :) Please don't be naive enough to believe the stats designed, compiled and promoted by eastern liberals. And certainly not those promoted by Teachers Unions or those with other similar political motivations such as common core or school curriculum / administrators or those with a racial/economic agenda And certainly don't be naive enough to believe statistics from China. Even financial numbers, let alone educational outcomes In fact, most of the Western Europeans who brag of "vastly superior" public education in comparison to the USA PALE in comparison to our own (questionable) statistics once you correct them for population/socioeconomic and race factors. Lift our "suburban" school data (such as it is) out of the US mix and we suddenly rank in the top 1 or top 3 in the world by subject or measure. You are seriously comparing apples to oranges in much of this data. The same hold true for OK - where I'd encourage folks to look at the facility, the faces and the fact that these kids seem to enjoy and take pride in their school, be well cared for and are learning great lessons such as work ethic and sportsmanship 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Hell, we can't even get it as an OPTION in our local schools (central NJ). French, German, Spanish and Italian ... it's as if we are still stuck in the 1930s. Good. They are all learning English anyway. German is great for science (although English as also infiltrated that) and English is the language of money and finance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts