WGI Zone no longer active

[lindap]

Of course you realize that even then, that was NOT legal.

Did everyone do it, yes. Was it legal, not a chance. Not even back then.

Just because no one was caught, or no effort was made to stop it, like there is now, doesn't mean it was legal in the copyright world.

The issues now are simply that due to the Internet, these things can be checked, and are checked now.

The internet brought awareness to what we didn't know at that time. The 1970's library had photocopiers? Copying for personal use or research was encouraged, When I started IT in 1978, computers were meant to make some tasks easier. I remember going to a conference early 1980's where the world wide web was a presentation. Little did I know then that computers would be used by all today and unfortunately for a few opportunists. The explosion of information over the past decades is mind boggling. Social media is outrageous. Let's get back to basics. Live music is good. A keepsake of that performance would be nice for personal enjoyment or historical significance.

[bill]

I would LOVE to hear from an arranger or drum corps Admin. who was explicitly told by a composer or rights holder that they did not have to pay royalties.

The Kilties were allowed exclusive rights to arrange and perform the three movements of Gaelforce for a portion of the corps' 2007 production---direct from the composer as a courtesy to the Kilties----and gratis. The personal, friendly and cordial correspondences between the parties are archived---with copies of such provided to DCA and DCI at the time.

[totaleefree]

Back in the day (80's and 90's) when you peformed and wrote music you just had to deal with ASCAP or BMI they told you what to pay for licenses and made sure you got a cut from folks playing your stuff. I guess the video age has made everthing more complex.

[lindap]

Back in the day (80's and 90's) when you peformed and wrote music you just had to deal with ASCAP or BMI they told you what to pay for licenses and made sure you got a cut from folks playing your stuff. I guess the video age has made everthing more complex.

I heard of ASCAP from the internet sometime, somewhere? Our community has a hall for neighbourhood events and were approached by SOCAN but didn't pay. The hall is generally used for meetings, yoga, darts, bridge, karate, parents and tots, summer playground activities and winter skate lace area for outdoor hockey. I'm on the executive. We had live music at an event last year. Oh no!The musician moved from Quebec to Alberta years ago and spent 2 years in South America. He played his guitar and sung in Spanish and French. It was wonderful and told him so. I asked 'What song is that?' He said 'I wrote it'.

Are there different copyright laws in different countries? Are there international copyright laws? I'm now mindful of copyright laws but I don't want the music to stop. Period.

edit: I dig drum lines. Sometimes I'd hear a melodic piece from the pit. Oh my! Are certain instruments exempt from copyright laws? I'm curious:)

Edited April 11, 2016 by lindap

[Eleran]

Eventually they will drive programs to copyright-free charts or original music.

I don't see why people keep touting original music is a solution. The minute the composer puts ink on the paper (or clicks keys on the keyboard in today's world), the music is copyrighted. If a corps wants to commission a new, original, work from a composer, even if the composer is not working through a publishing house, the corps is still bargaining for a license to perform, sync, stream, etc., and I doubt very much any composer is going to do all that work and give them that license for free. Sure, you may be able to avoid the middle-man of a publishing house by working directly with the composer, but the basic issues of what you are buying are still the same.

[mingusmonk]

I don't see why people keep touting original music is a solution. The minute the composer puts ink on the paper (or clicks keys on the keyboard in today's world), the music is copyrighted. If a corps wants to commission a new, original, work from a composer, even if the composer is not working through a publishing house, the corps is still bargaining for a license to perform, sync, stream, etc., and I doubt very much any composer is going to do all that work and give them that license for free. Sure, you may be able to avoid the middle-man of a publishing house by working directly with the composer, but the basic issues of what you are buying are still the same.

Technically true. But, for example, if you are the Bluecoats and the composer is Thrower/Rarick/Oliver, you're already about as close as you can get to being on the same page for negotiations. The wheels are greased and the likelihood that you are starting tour in June w/o the proper clearances are few and far between.

I am personally not for a mandated "all original policy." I see too many unintended consequences as a result. But I understand why people think it would help with the copyright process.

Edited April 11, 2016 by mingusmonk

[C.Holland]

Back in the day (80's and 90's) when you peformed and wrote music you just had to deal with ASCAP or BMI they told you what to pay for licenses and made sure you got a cut from folks playing your stuff. I guess the video age has made everthing more complex.

ASCAP is whom you deal with for the PERFORMANCE only of music. If you have a drum corps, cover band, marching band, or gypsy performance group, you deal with ASCAP for performance rights. If you want to sync what you performed to video or distribute on a CD or digital download. You need to deal with the publisher.

[ironlips]

ASCAP is whom you deal with for the PERFORMANCE only of music. If you have a drum corps, cover band, marching band, or gypsy performance group, you deal with ASCAP for performance rights. If you want to sync what you performed to video or distribute on a CD or digital download. You need to deal with the publisher.

Correct. In addition to the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers there are several other performance rights organizations who handle this process for the copyright holder:

What is a Performing Rights Organization?

By Chris Robley

APRIL 29, 2013{ 15 COMMENTS }

A Performing Rights Organization (or P.R.O.) helps songwriters and publishers get paid for the usage of their music by collecting one of the most important forms of publishing revenue: performance royalties.

As a songwriter, composer, or lyricist, you’re owed what is called a “performance royalty” any time your music is played on radio stations (terrestrial, satellite, and internet), used on TV shows or commercials, or performed in live venues.

Those performance royalties are paid by radio stations, venues, and TV networks toPerforming Rights Organizations like ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, and SOCAN (in Canada) who then distribute the money to their affiliated songwriters and publishers.

For a complete list of copyright collection societies worldwide, click HERE.

Performing Rights Organizations collect:

* performance royalties for publishers and songwriters

Performing Rights Organizations do NOT collect:

* mechanical royalties

* sync fees

* digital performance royalties associated with the creation of a master recording (paid by SoundExchange to labels, session players, etc.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To be clear, the right to perform the work is only one aspect of this issue. The venue pays for that, not the corps or DCI. The Lucas folks pay a flat fee to ASCAP, BMI, SESAC...etc. to secure performance rights for any music in their catalogs. This covers all concerts, of course, but also any ambient pre-recorded music played in the house.

Prior to this, the corps must obtain a license to arrange the music in the first place. This is because one of the exclusive rights of the copyright holder is to "prepare derivative versions" of the work. Since drum corps arrangements must be customized for their unique instrumentation, using an already available published chart is not feasible. The corps is responsible for the cost of obtaining this permission.

Mechanical royalties are those due directly to the copyright holder (not the performance rights organization) from those who make physical or digital copies of the work. DCI pays those in this case for any DVDs or CDs released.

Synchronization licences must be obtained for the right to use any version of the work, whether live or pre-recorded, in conjunction with other media, a video in this case. This also applies to "samples" like voice overs or segments of recordings. Many drum corps and marching band designers seem to be ignorant of this requirement and will pepper their shows with pre-recorded samples from other works without thought of whether permission is likely. When it is denied or too expensive for them, the videos can not legally contain this material. This is the major issue for WGI.

Copyright is a very complex issue and the above synopsis is quite superficial, but there is so much mis-information thrown about on threads like this that I trust interested parties will forgive this long post.

[totaleefree]

I guess it wasn't that simple, maybe the lawyers actually do earn their money sorting through all this stuff.

Edited April 11, 2016 by totaleefree

[ironlips]

"...maybe the lawyers actually do earn their money sorting through all this stuff."

Consider: Some of the money paid to the copyright holders goes for legal fees.

"The first thing we do, we kill all the lawyers." (Shakespeare, "Henry VI - Part II")

Of course, that would just make matters even worse since then nobody would have even the vaguest idea how to sort through this business.

Edited April 11, 2016 by ironlips