garfield Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 I invite you to read Schnitzel's posts on page one of this thread. They make a damning case against field percussion judging in the current environment. Have you talked to any DCA percussion judges since they pulled them off the field? They seem to have figured it out, with a facet of the activity that has a lower degree of physical jeopardy than the junior corps ranks. When (not if) the numerous near-misses are no longer near misses and a serious injury occurs, are you going to pony up 7 figures in settlements and attorney fees, and oh yeah, liability insurance premiums would jump through the roof especially when a known risk was ignored. Folks who see that it's time to be proactive can recognize the benefits of having a judge's face feet away from the snare line, but sometimes one has to look at the bigger picture. DCI has played with fire for years and gotten away with it, but eventually they will get burned. Performer and judge safety trumps any possible advantageous judging vantage point, and it should not even be a close decison. Whether in a dome or open air stadium, the drill isn't going to change and the risks are just as great. I hope DCI revisits this issue this coming offseason and pray we "get lucky" for a few more weeks. Wondering where you came up with the "7 figures" fear-mongering, and do you think insurance companies don't now know - and charge for - the risks of having a judge on the field? It appears they've looked at the potential risk and judged it minimal else they would have refused coverage to DCI until it pulls the judges off the field. Do YOU understand how insurance works? Drum corps have been doing whiplash drill for nearly 40 years and we all know how many serious collisions there have been. Your fear of "eventually it will happen" has the same odds and logic as playing the lotto under the same premise. I've seen Schnitzel's posts. Again, question the vested interests of the proponents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 After watching last night, I think it may be time to stop it. I'm just here to give you my 100% approval and agreement. DCI doesn't care about safety or they would have had the judges off the field way before now. Based on the amount of time they spend on it at yearly meetings, they care about scoring sheets, however. You've got to have priorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz16 Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 As a non-drummer, I question why percussion is the only section to get 2 judges. CG only gets 1 judge, and you can learn a lot more from being close up to the guard (hand placements, feet position, posture, etc.) than you can from observing them from the box ... and yet, they are judged on their presentation from the Box. Yes you can see those things from far enough away (the figure skating analogy applies here), and yet, in the box those judges stay. Same applies for the brass. Do we maybe over emphasize percussion judging, compared to the other sections of the corps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAvery Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 I find your position hard to rationalize when it's been the technical music arranging in light of the increasing execution demand and talent that has created the exceptional percussion musicians that we have today. Judging from the box will do a lot of damage to the progress drumming has attained over the decades. It depends on what you mean by "exceptional percussion musician". IMO sometimes in the quest for rhythmic precision, we lose musicianship. When was the last time a corps actually used true rubato on the field? Also, I believe this quest also eliminates particular types of music. By our judging standards the Basie band would get killed in execution, but yet there was no band that swung harder. And what about aleatoric music? Don't get me wrong, I love the performer's technical abilities. Some of the technical passages being performed on the field is truly amazing. But the older I get, the more I realize sometimes it becomes a crutch to hide a lack of musical understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilme861 Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 It looked like the field percussion judge almost got hurt last night...and several close calls too. Sounds like a field judge that took more risks in order to get the best reads on the line. Not all judges will do this and it is totally up to each individual judge to determine what risk they are going to take out on the field. Some will take more risks and might get banged up a bit but they know the risks just as much as anyone else does and have been taking that risk for 40+ years now. Judges have been ran into, ran over, hit with flags and rifles, hit props, been yelled at to move, etc... I'm sorry but as a drummer, leave them on the field and let them do their job. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Challenging the DCI performers to achieve drumming heights beyond their own expectations, subtle musical nuances which add the special flavor much like the ingredient in your favorite food in which you love but cannot quite place, advanced art so fine that only a special few can partake; that is what is kept alive with the percussion field judge in DCI. Move the judging off of the field, especially move the judge up-top, and Death to Smoochy will become a reality. Do not believe? Just look at a top BOA battery book from the 1990’s and compare it to a book written for BOA battery lines today. In the nineties top BOA lines were playing subtle yet complex musical-licks created in DCI such as Cheese-Chutuddas; today, because the BOA judging is up-top, most of the BOA snare lines are merely playing accent patterns, buzzes taps, crescendos, decrescendos, and other concert band oriented musical phrases. Why? Because of BOA initially moving the percussion judge up-top then eliminating the percussion judge all together. And today with DCI being the follower, not the leader, of many other aspects of BOA, an elimination of the DCI percussion field judge would likely follow the same battery-writing path which has occurred in BOA; maybe not to that extreme extent, but the DCI battery-books would likely be dumbed down. Just sayin’. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) I invite you to read Schnitzel's posts on page one of this thread. They make a damning case against field percussion judging in the current environment. Have you talked to any DCA percussion judges since they pulled them off the field? They seem to have figured it out, with a facet of the activity that has a lower degree of physical jeopardy than the junior corps ranks. When (not if) the numerous near-misses are no longer near misses and a serious injury occurs, are you going to pony up 7 figures in settlements and attorney fees, and oh yeah, liability insurance premiums would jump through the roof especially when a known risk was ignored. Folks who see that it's time to be proactive can recognize the benefits of having a judge's face feet away from the snare line, but sometimes one has to look at the bigger picture. DCI has played with fire for years and gotten away with it, but eventually they will get burned. Performer and judge safety trumps any possible advantageous judging vantage point, and it should not even be a close decison. Whether in a dome or open air stadium, the drill isn't going to change and the risks are just as great. I hope DCI revisits this issue this coming offseason and pray we "get lucky" for a few more weeks. I have. the verdict isnt as cut and dried as you think, and DCA also is in far smaller venues, none with a roof. that's a HUGE difference. judges have been hit before, rarely, and no one sued. it's like hitting the ump in baseball or the linesman in football. it happens once in a great while. no one wants it to happen, and good judges may get close, but know how to avoid it. this particular judge was an eyesore last year. Sometimes people have to realize in a dome, some things CANNOT be heard in the boxes. Edited July 25, 2016 by Jeff Ream 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 As a non-drummer, I question why percussion is the only section to get 2 judges. CG only gets 1 judge, and you can learn a lot more from being close up to the guard (hand placements, feet position, posture, etc.) than you can from observing them from the box ... and yet, they are judged on their presentation from the Box. Yes you can see those things from far enough away (the figure skating analogy applies here), and yet, in the box those judges stay. Same applies for the brass. Do we maybe over emphasize percussion judging, compared to the other sections of the corps? if you think guard doesnt weigh heavily on the other visual sheets, especially GE, you're nuts. that said, the MA sheet should be turned into upstairs brass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 it's far easier to hear the battery percussion than brass. yet brass judges dont find it necessary to obstruct the performers. if the battery is playing at a level which is imperceptible from the perimeter / front sideline, then quite frankly they are not making a contribution which matters to the production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcorpsfever Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 As long as musicianship matters for anything and scores count, percussion must be judged on the field, unless an alternative method can accomplish the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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