George Dixon Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 18 minutes ago, wallace said: @George: Don't you think the wholesale music changes at the back end of 2016 hurt the music captions? yup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumManTx Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) Beating a dead horse at this point. Edited February 25, 2017 by DrumManTx 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Just now, DrumManTx said: Ahh. I can see the maroon colored tin foil hats have come back. I am so sick of the same crap every year 2013 the towers were ugly and did not move well, at all. They also didn't add anything and just kinda sat there. They were completely unutilized until they stuck a mello on there at the end of the season. If you're going to have those huge things take up so much space they better be functional for the members to use them. And they definitely were not. So yes, they were clutter. They over saturated the crap out of 2014 and created way too much unfocused noise that probably took their GE down a touch, enough to let Bluecoats pass. When did those final changes go in? At the very end. Coincidence that's when Bluecoats passed them? No. 2015 just did not have the depth to last the whole season. When everyone else started layering better and making final changes and they still had basically the same show as the rest of the year sans an ineffective color scheme change, again, what did we think would happen? I wont even talk about 2016. If you wanna cry foul even after a medaling season and 2 caption wins (staff of which is suddenly not as amazing when they change corps) go for it. Just makes you look like a bunch of sore whiny losers. And I LOVED 2 of those shows and strangely enjoyed one quite a bit before I get called a hater. did you read the post we were responding to? No "tin foil hats" just honest replies man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumManTx Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, George Dixon said: did you read the post we were responding to? No "tin foil hats" just honest replies man Yes. But this comes up every single year post 2011 and it's something that got old for me years ago. There isn't some conspiracy. There were just better corps and better shows. The whole season isn't what a show is designed for. It's designed for the final night. Edited February 25, 2017 by DrumManTx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 40 minutes ago, DrumManTx said: Yes. But this comes up every single year post 2011 and it's something that got old for me years ago. There isn't some conspiracy. There were just better corps and better shows. The whole season isn't what a show is designed for. It's designed for the final night. I'm not wearing a conspiracy hat BUT The composition of a judging panel can definitely impact placements on finals night. Now -- that's not the same as saying all DCI judges have it out for the Cadets. I'd disagree with that. Hopefully http://www.frontensemble.com/ is around again this summer. It's a most revealing website 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumManTx Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 1 minute ago, corpsband said: I'm not wearing a conspiracy hat BUT The composition of a judging panel can definitely impact placements on finals night. Now -- that's not the same as saying all DCI judges have it out for the Cadets. I'd disagree with that. Hopefully http://www.frontensemble.com/ is around again this summer. It's a most revealing website I kept hearing this past summer "tonight is a Carolina Crown/Blue Devils/Bluecoats" panel yet the outcome remained the same. I'm not saying there isn't a judge or two but I don't think it is this widespread phenomenon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Lancer Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, DrumManTx said: I kept hearing this past summer "tonight is a Carolina Crown/Blue Devils/Bluecoats" panel yet the outcome remained the same. I'm not saying there isn't a judge or two but I don't think it is this widespread phenomenon. And I was told that the finals panel last year was not Bluecoats friendly. They did OK, as I recall. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumManTx Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Jurassic Lancer said: And I was told that the finals panel last year was not Bluecoats friendly. They did OK, as I recall. Maybe when my favorite corps doesn't have so hot of a season I'll be enlightened. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Just now, DrumManTx said: I kept hearing this past summer "tonight is a Carolina Crown/Blue Devils/Bluecoats" panel yet the outcome remained the same. I'm not saying there isn't a judge or two but I don't think it is this widespread phenomenon. I think it's less to do with "corps" and more to do with other criteria. Some judges don't like some choices. And some corps consistently make choices a judge just doesn't buy into. That's why I wish we could all hear tapes. Because you'd hear how some judges do (or don't ) explain their number. Just because corps are all on the same sheet does not imply that all judges use the sheet the same way! Heck there are many who still manage their numbers differently (which is a whole other ball of wax). The process is far more subjective that we'd like to believe. It would be fun to bring every DCI judge to the first show of the year with every corps in attendance! Have them judge their "primary" caption. See what happens. How much variation would there be? Would last year's final standings be reflected in that first show? Fun thought experiment at least. Even then it wouldn't be a true "clean slate". There's an entire process to "selling your show" that takes place away from the field. And there are DEFINITELY some teams that are better at that than others. Many of these judges and staff see each other year round. That said, I do believe they all try to do the best they can. And I don't think a conspiracy exists. It's just a much messier reality than " objectively judge the show that's in front of you that night". It's a very imperfect process. But it's the best available 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumManTx Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, corpsband said: I think it's less to do with "corps" and more to do with other criteria. Some judges don't like some choices. And some corps consistently make choices a judge just doesn't buy into. That's why I wish we could all hear tapes. Because you'd hear how some judges do (or don't ) explain their number. Just because corps are all on the same sheet does not imply that all judges use the sheet the same way! Heck there are many who still manage their numbers differently (which is a whole other ball of wax). The process is far more subjective that we'd like to believe. It would be fun to bring every DCI judge to the first show of the year with every corps in attendance! Have them judge their "primary" caption. See what happens. How much variation would there be? Would last year's final standings be reflected in that first show? Fun thought experiment at least. Even then it wouldn't be a true "clean slate". There's an entire process to "selling your show" that takes place away from the field. And there are DEFINITELY some teams that are better at that than others. Many of these judges and staff see each other year round. That said, I do believe they all try to do the best they can. And I don't think a conspiracy exists. It's just a much messier reality than " objectively judge the show that's in front of you that night". It's a very imperfect process. But it's the best available I agree with all of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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