Judging/Scoring Tutorial?

[xandandl]

21 minutes ago, Schnitzel said:

Fees, yes.  Very poor ones.  (About 30% of a decent Marching Band contest in Fall.)

Most DCI Judges take a net loss on taxes as an Independent Contractor.  No deluxe hotels or room service, either.  Usually lowest-fare flights, which means getting to airports by 6am, (after 3-4 hours of sleep) cattle-car seats (in steerage) and connections to the next small-market airport, where maybe there will be a show sponsor there to give a ride to a "discount" hotel, where there might, but not always, be a place to eat before going to the next stadium.  Rinse, lather, repeat.  A decidedly non-glamourous experience, only for those truly dedicated to contributing to a unique and wonderful youth activity.

However, they do get to keep the frequent flier miles and hotel loyalty points. Only problem is that when they garner an award the judge is too tired to do any more travelling.

Not every show is a fly-in, fly-out operation. Judges have been known to carpool from one contest site to another, sometimes getting only a few more hours sleep than the corps they judge. An effort has been made to limit this, but it runs against the CBA of trying to keeping the costs of drum corps judging lower in net for DCI and show sponsors.

[Stu]

1 hour ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

Yes, it is subjective that individual judges have to determine what they feel constitutes enough of a mistake to warrant a tic.  But at least that can relate to something fans can directly observe - corps A had more undressed lines than than Corps B, for their M&M score is lower.  Rather than "I am Expert Judge & I cay Corps A gets this score and Corps B gets this score.  I am able to tell because I am Expert Judge"

Determining when a mistake was actually made on the fly based on the sheets definition, and then deducting a tic, was what defined the tic system; not comparing the quality of tics one unit made compared to another unit.  Of course when something is blatantly obvious we can catch it; as in: this is an apple… that is an apple core.  But the adjudicators at the DCI level were required to determine when something extremely minuscule crossed over into an error while on the fly: as in making the decision when an apple becomes an apple core while it is being consumed.  That type of on the fly extremely microscopic determination, especially at the highest DCI level, was and is completely 100% subjective no matter the intensive training involved.

[garfield]

On 6/2/2017 at 2:41 PM, mingusmonk said:

It is a Build-Up system. Start at 0 and achieve your way up.

Actually, it's a Build-Up system.  Start at 40 and work your way up.

(Which, BTW, makes all scores above the lowest one almost nebulous and meaningless except in relative rank.)

 

[garfield]

On 6/2/2017 at 4:52 PM, mjoakes said:

Are the judges paid fees? Decent fees for what they do? Put up in JW Marriott suites with room service picked up by DCI?

Yes

Yes, now. (There was a pay increase last year.)

HaHa, No.

 

[Schnitzel]

On 6/3/2017 at 9:31 PM, xandandl said:

. . . it runs against the CBA of trying to keeping the costs of drum corps judging lower in net for DCI and show sponsors.

CBA?  Collective Bargaining Agreement?  Not on your life.  The cold truth is that in the summer activities, judges pay is a very low priority.  Increased travel costs have precluded any rise in stipends for several years - double-digit years.  The colder truth is that drum corps judges have no bargaining power (or opportunity) whatsoever, largely due to the fact that there are factorially more people who will gladly take what is offered for the opportunity to participate.  Small number of jobs for a lot of interested people - simple supply-and-demand.

That may-or-may-not be a good thing, but DCI and DCA have both found that qualified people will generally accept a minimum fee and no benefits to be a part of the activity. That's also one reason you see a significant migration of experienced judges to staff positions with individual corps.

Fans are often very surprised to hear the actual judging fees offered, particularly for "big events."  In stark contrast to Fall and Winter, where there is more competition for qualified adjudicators.  Kinda ironic, when you think "Marching Music's Major League," and all. 

[Stu]

1 hour ago, Schnitzel said:

CBA?  Collective Bargaining Agreement?  Not on your life.  The cold truth is that in the summer activities, judges pay is a very low priority.  Increased travel costs have precluded any rise in stipends for several years - double-digit years.  The colder truth is that drum corps judges have no bargaining power (or opportunity) whatsoever, largely due to the fact that there are factorially more people who will gladly take what is offered for the opportunity to participate.  Small number of jobs for a lot of interested people - simple supply-and-demand.

That may-or-may-not be a good thing, but DCI and DCA have both found that qualified people will generally accept a minimum fee and no benefits to be a part of the activity. That's also one reason you see a significant migration of experienced judges to staff positions with individual corps.

Fans are often very surprised to hear the actual judging fees offered, particularly for "big events."  In stark contrast to Fall and Winter, where there is more competition for qualified adjudicators.  Kinda ironic, when you think "Marching Music's Major League," and all. 

Clete Blakeman, Jeff Rice, Wayne Mackie, Rusty Baynes, Boris Cheek, Scott Edwards and Kieth Ferguson (all combined) made far less in 2016 than just one person: Peyton Manning.  In fact they were the least paid individuals of all who were on the field actually engaging in every play during Super Bowl 50. Who were they? The Referee Crew. It is the nature of the beast in all major competitions not just DCI.

[xandandl]

7 hours ago, Schnitzel said:

CBA?  Collective Bargaining Agreement?  Not on your life.  The cold truth is that in the summer activities, judges pay is a very low priority.  Increased travel costs have precluded any rise in stipends for several years - double-digit years.  The colder truth is that drum corps judges have no bargaining power (or opportunity) whatsoever, largely due to the fact that there are factorially more people who will gladly take what is offered for the opportunity to participate.  Small number of jobs for a lot of interested people - simple supply-and-demand.

That may-or-may-not be a good thing, but DCI and DCA have both found that qualified people will generally accept a minimum fee and no benefits to be a part of the activity. That's also one reason you see a significant migration of experienced judges to staff positions with individual corps.

Fans are often very surprised to hear the actual judging fees offered, particularly for "big events."  In stark contrast to Fall and Winter, where there is more competition for qualified adjudicators.  Kinda ironic, when you think "Marching Music's Major League," and all. 

no, cost-benefit analysis

All your other points I agree with completely.

[jwillis35]

The way I like to explain judging to some (like the OP) with no background in this activity or knowledge of how it operates is as follows:

• The overall score is broken into 3 major categories:
  1. Music (30)  
  2. Visual  (30)
  3. General Effect (40)

- this adds up to 100 possible points. 

• Each of those major categories are broken into smaller sub categories:
  • Music is broken into 3 sections: brass, percussion, and analysis
  • Visual is broken into 3 sections: analysis, proficiency, color guard
  • General Effect is broken into 2 section: General Effect 1, General Effect 2.  
    • This used to be Music Effect and Visual Effect, but both judges are now assessing both music and visual, so the final score is an average of the 2 judges.
    • This is believed to allow both judges to give better overall impressions of the coordination of all elements in the show
    • It is also believed to eliminate any bias toward a certain style with the 2 scores being averaged
• In the Music caption, each of its 3 sub sections (brass, percussion, analysis) are further broken into 2 groups: achievement and content. So you would have brass achievement and brass content, percussion achievement and content, and the same for analysis.  The achievement is how well the members are performing their show requirements in that particular area (brass, percussion, or overall analysis).  The content score is determined by what the members were given to perform. An easier brass book with less artistic variety and nuance, for example, may not push much above the 60% to 70% in that box area.  So no matter how well the members perform on their brass instruments, they may have a difficult time moving their score up the ladder until content improves.  Hence the reason we see rewrites throughout the summer with most corps -- even some of the top-tier World Class corps.
• The same is true for the Visual category.  Its' 3 subdivisions (analysis, proficiency, color guard) are further broken into content and achievement sub captions; but it's slightly different from music.  Visual Proficiency is broken into Content & Achievement, Analysis is broken into Composition & Achievement, and Color Guard is broken into Substance & Achievement.  Achievement = performance.  Content, Composition, and Substance = what the performers were given. The premise is slightly different here because Composition refers to the entire field drill and staging of all visual elements.  Substance refers to quality of flag, rifle, saber, and other guard routines (including dance, ballet, character play, etc.). Content refers to the quality of various marching routines given to each performer, including body movement, character play, dance, and more; but typically reserved for the brass and percussion since color guard has their own caption.
• General Effect's two sub captions (GE1, GE2) and further broken into 2 sections: Repertoire & Performance. The repertoire aspect of GE can be highly subjective, as is the Composition aspect of Visual.  General Effect is highly debated on DCP and elsewhere.  The idea is to have two judges assess the total makeup of a show (music, visual) and determine the quality of how it was put together. Does the show make sense? Does it project what the instructors and designers say it is supposed to convey? Is it effectively performed that it engages the audience and flows logically from one element to the next?  General effect does exclusively mean excitement, or fun, or audience friendly, and any other emotions/actions one can think of.  Often the most exciting shows do not win DCI, but GE tends to favor the best constructed theme or concept in which the ideas flow logically.  It also favors the show in which those ideas can be projected into the stands, which is where the GE judges are seated. 

So I did not display how score numbers are broken down by sub category, etc., but I think this gives a good look at how things break down and the responsibilities for each judge.  

[jwillis35]

I will also add that many old timers (such as myself) tend to view a show from a slightly different perspective. We often see it this way:

1. Performance (brass, percussion, color guard, and marching and maneuvering)
2. Visual composition (field drill, body movement, dance, play acting, etc)
3. General Effect

[mjoakes]

Very interesting. And also very helpful - to me, at least. Thanks for posting the detail. It wasn't too much detail. It was helpful explanation.