Bluecoats getting the shaft this year

[MikeRapp]

17 minutes ago, pudding said:

No, no, NO. A deconstruction is NOT simply something that challenges a tradition, or which is blatantly against what is "accepted" as the "correct" way of doing things. It is a deliberate breakdown of a structure into its elements and recombining them in a way that focuses on the elements instead of the whole structure. 

Thank you.

There are, what, seven world class shows this year that feature a singer. Hell Cadets features four of them. If your entire show concept is based on the supposed mind blowing inclusion of a featured singer, then I would argue you started with a very weak concept.

[ContraFart]

1 minute ago, MikeRapp said:

Thank you.

There are, what, seven world class shows this year that feature a singer. Hell Cadets features four of them. If your entire show concept is based on the supposed mind blowing inclusion of a featured singer, then I would argue you started with a very weak concept.

I still like it though. But I guess I have evolved into a Crown homer so take that for what it's worth.

[MikeRapp]

2 minutes ago, ContraFart said:

I still like it though. But I guess I have evolved into a Crown homer so take that for what it's worth.

Looping aaaaaall the way back to the beginning, my point was, is, and is now even more so the same: this is a very good show, and a great corps, but not a show that deserves a medal over SCV, BD and Bluecoats.

Edited August 2, 2017 by MikeRapp

[pudding]

Just now, MotoSurfBass said:

Am I to assume that YOUR feelings and anecdotal evidence count more than mine then?

Oh, of course not, but you see I've actually posted why I feel the way I do about Crown's show, and you conspicuously haven't addressed it except to say that people you know would agree with you, so I assumed that your feelings and anecdotes were all that you had to fall back on.

For your convenience, here are some direct links to my posts outlining some of why I don't like Crown's design this year: 

 

[ContraFart]

2 minutes ago, MikeRapp said:

Looping aaaaaall the way back to the beginning, my point was, is, and is now even more so the same: this is a very good show, and a great corps, but not a show that deserves a medal over SCV, BD and Bluecoats.

I both agree and disagree simultaneously

[pudding]

I'd also like to note that I seem to be the only one around here that's willing to address the drawbacks and weaknesses of every corps (as well as their strengths), as opposed to simply screaming about how my favorite corps is the best and infallible and how every other corps is terrible.

Edited August 2, 2017 by pudding

[Treefidy]

25 minutes ago, pudding said:

How ironic that you accuse me of bias while being so obviously blind to the drawbacks of your own home team. Are you actually unaware that SCV has mic'd their 12 strongest brass players and feature them prominently? 

Meanwhile, you appear to not be reading what I'm actually saying, and your response isn't even consistent with itself. Yes, I believe that Bloo should be receiving higher repertoire scores in GE and music. You then go on to list several personal issues you have with their VISUAL PROGRAM. A trend that I notice from most of your posts, by the way; you only ever harp on visual. If you read what I actually said, I have already stated that the Bluecoats this year are deserving of their low visual numbers, because they are in fact dirty. 

How ironic that you accuse me of bias while being so obviously blind to the drawbacks of your own home team. Are you actually unaware that BC has mic'd THEIR ENTIRE HORNLINE? 

Dirty feet = dirty GE. Why should I reward the content of a corps, in either music, visual or ge, when they clearly can't perform it or the design is so bad, it kills the content.

A few examples. The best musical moments of the show, happen when the hornline is standing still or doing fosse leg movements. The entire closer, is park and blow or move during one of 16 different solos/section features. The hornline LITERALLY does their most difficult moments of drill DURING THESE SOLOS. You want to talk to me about a twelve man section playing the hardest parts? There's not one moment in the BC show that ANY other top 3 corps couldn't play as well as them. Why should they be rewarded MUSICALLY for a bunch of soloist standing around while everyone else performs drill? Why should they be rewarded for playing the difficult parts of music when doing slight body moments or NOTHING AT ALL? Give me some legitimate, concrete reasons for them to be rewarded, because you are knocking SCV while ignoring the Bluecoats BLATANTLY doing the things you are knocking Vanguard for doing. How's that for a mix of visual and music?

And don't even get me started on the ballad. Playing back field should not sound like you are facing front...

Edited August 2, 2017 by Treefidy

[jsd]

20 minutes ago, MikeRapp said:

You left out, in your opinion.

No, based on the sheets. Not my opinion. 

[pudding]

32 minutes ago, Treefidy said:

How ironic that you accuse me of bias while being so obviously blind to the drawbacks of your own home team. Are you actually unaware that BC has mic'd THEIR ENTIRE HORNLINE? 

Dirty feet = dirty GE. Why should I reward the content of a corps, in either music, visual or ge, when they clearly can't perform it or the design is so bad, it kills the content.

A few examples. The best musical moments of the show, happen when the hornline is standing still or doing fosse leg movements. The entire closer, is park and blow or move during one of 16 different solos/section features. The hornline LITERALLY does their most difficult moments of drill DURING THESE SOLOS. You want to talk to me about a twelve man section playing the hardest parts? There's not one moment in the BC show that ANY other top 3 corps couldn't play as well as them. Why should they be rewarded MUSICALLY for a bunch of soloist standing around while everyone else performs drill? Why should they be rewarded for playing the difficult parts of music when doing slight body moments or NOTHING AT ALL? Give me some legitimate, concrete reasons for them to be rewarded, because you are knocking SCV while ignoring the Bluecoats BLATANTLY doing the things you are knocking Vanguard for doing. How's that for a mix of visual and music?

And don't even get me started on the ballad. Playing back field should not sound like you are facing front...

Perhaps if you'd read further than "mic", you'd see that I'm not complaining about the existence of mics in and of themselves, but rather Vanguard's specific use of them to solely amplify their strongest brass players to the level of being almost equal to the entire rest of the brass section for the sole purpose of giving their brassline less musical demand. 

That you think that visual is so important that it trumps both Music and GE in terms of accreditation is laughable. There's really nothing more to say on this matter, since any time anyone brings up music to you you immediately swerve straight back to visual as if that's some kind of panacea.

Since you want a breakdown so bad, let's go. Bluecoats first:

Sure, they do a lot of standing/body movement and playing. I'll note that in the other thread, you were incredibly in favor of body movement as having superior demand to traditional marching, so in the name of consistency I'd expect you to actually like that the Bluecoats are doing body visuals while playing. That said, about 2:30 into the Bluecoats show is an extended period of marching and playing, around 190 BPM, only 16 counts of which are half time. You also conveniently ignored the rhythmically difficult section at the end of their opener, while they are doing the follow-the-leader through the prop.

Lots of body movement during the ballad, including hip movement, kneeling, and standing up. There's also marching and playing, too.

You're quick to criticize the closer. Let's examine. Sure, there's a lot of park and blow. There's also a lot of your favorite, body movement while playing. You also seem to be ignoring the last moments of the show, the unwinding drill while the full brass line is playing melodic material (or countermelodic in the case of the mellos). Also, I would note that the brass line is playing in front of the staged shotgun mics, so there is no ambient amplification at the end of the show.

Let's move on to your Vanguard, shall we?

The opening bars are just random chords. Sure, there's timing challenges, but the big thing to notice here is that the small ensemble (hereafter referred to as The 12) are playing all of the difficult parts. By the end of the opening statement, the full brassline has not played anything more rhythmically interesting than a quarter note triplet, and has not done any more difficult visual challenge than a plie and some marching while holding a long tone chord. 

Percussion break 1.

The brassline plays chords, while The 12 play triple-tonguing.

Percussion break 2.

The 12 gets featured as they stand on the props. When the rest of the brass comes in, they are immobile after having posed.

Percussion break 3 (long one this time).

The 12 plays a jazzy little number before being joined by the full brassline, which only starts playing once they hit an extended halt (the big > sign). The body movement during the halt consists of individuals swaying.

Percussion break 4.

Finally, some full brass playing and marching that's more interesting than long tones. It's short lived, though, as we quickly go back to sporadic punches in the brass and then chords while The 12 play the rip into the impact.

Percussion break 5.

Three whole seconds of sixteenth notes in the brass line as they jump back and forth before...

Theremin break 1 (Percussion break 6).

I get super excited when the brassline gets into pods, because they play interesting music (no moving, of course), but literally as soon as the third pod starts playing, we're immediately into:

Percussion break 7.

During percussion break 7, the brass moves freely into position to park and bark some ascending chugga-digga-duts. I'll allow the 16 counts of front ensemble to not be counted as a percussion break (although it is, since the next brass statement is a completely different musical idea). This next statement is a very Gaines-esque drill moment, which I enjoy, but again, the entire brass moment is only 14 seconds long before:

Percussion break 8.

Some nice brass after Percussion 8, especially with the jazz running.

This is getting tiring, so I'll stop here. You get the idea.

Edited August 2, 2017 by pudding

[pudding]

38 minutes ago, Treefidy said:

And don't even get me started on the ballad. Playing back field should not sound like you are facing front...

You so clearly aren't even trying to understand the show. Did you cry foul in 2002 when the Cavaliers turned backfield but sounded louder in their ballad? It's the juxtaposition of what you see vs. what you hear, which is consistent with their show theme of juxtaposition in general (most obviously left/right, but also front/back, black and white/color, and see/hear). 

Edited August 2, 2017 by pudding